HMO Health Insurance

This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
is voted in:

MEDICAL INSURANCE EXPLAINED
(Research done by the AARP Legal Department)
*
Q What does HMO stand for?*
A . This is actually a variation of the phrase, "HEY MOE." Its roots go
back to a concept pioneered by Moe of the Three Stooges, who discovered
that a patient could be made to forget the pain in his foot if he was
poked hard enough in the eye
*
Q. I just joined an HMO. How difficult will it be to choose the doctor I
want?*
A. Just slightly more difficult than choosing your parents. Your insurer
will provide you with a book listing all the doctors in the plan. The
doctors basically fall into two categories: those who are no longer
accepting new patients, and those who will see you but are no longer
participating in the plan. But don't worry, the remaining doctor who is
still in the plan and accepting new patients has an office just a
half-day's drive away and a diploma from a third world country.
*
Q. Do all diagnostic procedures require pre-certification?
A. No. Only those you need.
*
Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
*
Q. What happens if I want to try alternative forms of medicine?
A. You'll need to find alternative forms of payment.
*
Q. My pharmacy plan only covers generic drugs, but I need the name
brand. I tried the generic medication, but it gave me a stomach ache.
What should I do?
A. Poke yourself in the eye.
*
Q. What if I'm away from home and I get sick?
A . You really shouldn't do that.
*
Q. I think I need to see a specialist, but my doctor insists he can
handle my problem. Can a general practitioner really perform a heart
transplant right in his/her office?
A. Hard to say, but considering that all you're risking is the $20
co-payment, there's no harm in giving it a shot.
*
Q Will health care be different in the next decade?
A. No, but if you call right now, you might get an appointment by then.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-6C9EE2.07590720092007@news.giganews.com...
> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
> is voted in:
>
> MEDICAL INSURANCE EXPLAINED
> (Research done by the AARP Legal Department)
>
> Q What does HMO stand for?
> A . This is actually a variation of the phrase, "HEY MOE." Its roots
> go
> back to a concept pioneered by Moe of the Three Stooges, who
> discovered
> that a patient could be made to forget the pain in his foot if he was
> poked hard enough in the eye
>
> Q. I just joined an HMO. How difficult will it be to choose the doctor
> I
> want?
> A. Just slightly more difficult than choosing your parents. Your
> insurer
> will provide you with a book listing all the doctors in the plan. The
> doctors basically fall into two categories: those who are no longer
> accepting new patients, and those who will see you but are no longer
> participating in the plan. But don't worry, the remaining doctor who
> is
> still in the plan and accepting new patients has an office just a
> half-day's drive away and a diploma from a third world country.
>
> Q. Do all diagnostic procedures require pre-certification?
> A. No. Only those you need.
>
> Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
> A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
>
> Q. What happens if I want to try alternative forms of medicine?
> A. You'll need to find alternative forms of payment.
>
> Q. My pharmacy plan only covers generic drugs, but I need the name
> brand. I tried the generic medication, but it gave me a stomach ache.
> What should I do?
> A. Poke yourself in the eye.
>
> Q. What if I'm away from home and I get sick?
> A . You really shouldn't do that.
>
> Q. I think I need to see a specialist, but my doctor insists he can
> handle my problem. Can a general practitioner really perform a heart
> transplant right in his/her office?
> A. Hard to say, but considering that all you're risking is the $20
> co-payment, there's no harm in giving it a shot.
>
> Q Will health care be different in the next decade?
> A. No, but if you call right now, you might get an appointment by
> then.

I've been on an HMO for several years now - no problems, no complaints.
My doctor before the HMO is my doctor on the HMO, same with my wife and
the kids, and we switched because it was better coverage than what we
were getting and for less money. Some of that is, no doubt, due to the
fact that our pre-HMO coverage was through our small business and our
HMO coverage is through our teaching at the local community college,
which means the plan covers a lot of state employees. Plans get better
the bigger group, in my experience. But still, no complaints here.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Sep 20, 8:59 am, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
>
> Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
> A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.

i always love these clauses.

what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
doctor, the condition is pre-existing.

<kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190296856.957905.261470@o80g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> On Sep 20, 8:59 am, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care
>> package
>>
>> Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
>> A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
>
> i always love these clauses.
>
> what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
> doctor, the condition is pre-existing.

Is this really an issue? We've switched insurance plans almost annually
for most of the last 10-15 years - the wonders of being a small business
and looking for decent rates - and the pre-existing condition issue has
never come up. I've certainly got them, e.g., I take two asthma/allergy
medicines every day, and it's never been an issue.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Steve Freides wrote:

> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmp_omelet-6C9EE2.07590720092007@news.giganews.com...
>
>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
>> is voted in:

I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
sentence? Or point me at something to read?

> Plans get better the bigger group, in my experience.

Yeah, that's pretty much what William Beveridge worked out in 1942.

tom

--
Crazy week so far, which at one point involved spewing down the inside
of my jeans! -- D

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201522050.26168@urchin.eart h.li...
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsmp_omelet-6C9EE2.07590720092007@news.giganews.com...
>>
>>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care
>>> package is voted in:
>
> I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
> sentence? Or point me at something to read?
>
>> Plans get better the bigger group, in my experience.
>
> Yeah, that's pretty much what William Beveridge worked out in 1942.

Makes you wonder why we can't seem to work it out here. I've got no
political interest other than my pocketbook - we pay upwards of $1,000
per month for our family's health insurance and this is on the better
plan - the previous plan was the same money but worse coverage. I think
we're down to something like $800-900 per month this year, but it's an
obscene amount any way you slice it, IMHO.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

> tom
>
> --
> Crazy week so far, which at one point involved spewing down the inside
> of my jeans! -- D

In article <1190296856.957905.261470@o80g2000hse.googlegroups .com>,
"kcmunchkin@gmail.com" <kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 20, 8:59 am, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
> >
> > Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
> > A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
>
> i always love these clauses.
>
> what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
> doctor, the condition is pre-existing.

<lol>
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201522050.26168@urchin.earth.li >,
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> >> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
> >> is voted in:
>
> I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
> sentence? Or point me at something to read?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...e+plan&btnG=Go
ogle+Search
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <5lfdcrF7rl46U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> <kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1190296856.957905.261470@o80g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> > On Sep 20, 8:59 am, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care
> >> package
> >>
> >> Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
> >> A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
> >
> > i always love these clauses.
> >
> > what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
> > doctor, the condition is pre-existing.
>
> Is this really an issue? We've switched insurance plans almost annually
> for most of the last 10-15 years - the wonders of being a small business
> and looking for decent rates - and the pre-existing condition issue has
> never come up. I've certainly got them, e.g., I take two asthma/allergy
> medicines every day, and it's never been an issue.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

It depends on the insurance company.
So far, I've only ever seen it with private coverage.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <5lfb9lF80ctcU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> I've been on an HMO for several years now - no problems, no complaints.
> My doctor before the HMO is my doctor on the HMO, same with my wife and
> the kids, and we switched because it was better coverage than what we
> were getting and for less money. Some of that is, no doubt, due to the
> fact that our pre-HMO coverage was through our small business and our
> HMO coverage is through our teaching at the local community college,
> which means the plan covers a lot of state employees. Plans get better
> the bigger group, in my experience. But still, no complaints here.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

It was HUMOR! ;-)

And not everyone has as good of experiences with them as you do.
You are very lucky.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <5lfg20F80esnU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201522050.26168@urchin.eart h.li...
> > On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
> >
> >> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> newsmp_omelet-6C9EE2.07590720092007@news.giganews.com...
> >>
> >>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care
> >>> package is voted in:
> >
> > I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
> > sentence? Or point me at something to read?
> >
> >> Plans get better the bigger group, in my experience.
> >
> > Yeah, that's pretty much what William Beveridge worked out in 1942.
>
> Makes you wonder why we can't seem to work it out here. I've got no
> political interest other than my pocketbook - we pay upwards of $1,000
> per month for our family's health insurance and this is on the better
> plan - the previous plan was the same money but worse coverage. I think
> we're down to something like $800-900 per month this year, but it's an
> obscene amount any way you slice it, IMHO.
>
> -S-

Might be better if you just put that money in the bank with earned
interest, and save it for providing your OWN medical coverage.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Omelet wrote:

> In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201522050.26168@urchin.earth.li >,
> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>>>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
>>>> is voted in:
>>
>> I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
>> sentence? Or point me at something to read?
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Every single one of the hits for as many pages i can count is an opinion
piece about the plan which assumes you already know what the plan is.
Which is why i asked.

I really don't get why so many Americans are so violently opposed to an
NHS-type system. It's comprehensively proven, by decades of experience in
countries across the developed world, to be something that reduces costs
and improves care. Why are Americans so attached to paying more for less?
I just don't get it!

tom

--
YUO CANNOT ESCAPE OR EVAR WIN!!!!!!!!

In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201750380.20372@urchin.earth.li >,
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201522050.26168@urchin.earth.li >,
> > Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> >
> >>>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
> >>>> is voted in:
> >>
> >> I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
> >> sentence? Or point me at something to read?
> >
> > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...lan&btnG=Googl
> > e+Search
>
> Every single one of the hits for as many pages i can count is an opinion
> piece about the plan which assumes you already know what the plan is.
> Which is why i asked.
>
> I really don't get why so many Americans are so violently opposed to an
> NHS-type system. It's comprehensively proven, by decades of experience in
> countries across the developed world, to be something that reduces costs
> and improves care. Why are Americans so attached to paying more for less?
> I just don't get it!
>
> tom

Because of the experiences of other countries.
And the history of ineptitude that our own Government tends to show in
Government run projects/programs.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

Omelet <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>> It's comprehensively proven, by decades of experience in
>> countries across the developed world, to be something that reduces costs
>> and improves care. Why are Americans so attached to paying more for less?
>
> Because of the experiences of other countries.

That's what he said... Anyway, what makes health care in rodents
different from many other sectors of capitalistic relations is that
people would be willing to give all money they have, and more, if the
illness is sufficiently life-threatening.

I inserted "rodents" so that you stop reading at that point and
proclaim "we are not rodents!!!"

Omelet <omp_omelet@gmail.com> writes:

> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
> is voted in:

[long post snipped: see http://user.pa.net/~nrwing/hmo/ if you want to
read it again]

This is very old. I remember posting it to BIX in the mid-90s, and it
wasn't new then. Although I didn't add any gratuitous politics and
took the time to mention that it wasn't original.

--
Jim Janney

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-EAEFE5.10495020092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <5lfb9lF80ctcU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been on an HMO for several years now - no problems, no
>> complaints.
>> My doctor before the HMO is my doctor on the HMO, same with my wife
>> and
>> the kids, and we switched because it was better coverage than what we
>> were getting and for less money. Some of that is, no doubt, due to
>> the
>> fact that our pre-HMO coverage was through our small business and our
>> HMO coverage is through our teaching at the local community college,
>> which means the plan covers a lot of state employees. Plans get
>> better
>> the bigger group, in my experience. But still, no complaints here.
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> It was HUMOR! ;-)

No, it was political commentary that thought it was funny. I do not
find the subject very amusing, I confess. Get to know a few people who
can't afford health care and you'll see why.

> And not everyone has as good of experiences with them as you do.
> You are very lucky.

Better to be lucky than to be just about anything else.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their
> foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:28:02 +0100, Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Omelet wrote:
>
>> In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201522050.26168@urchin.earth.li >,
>> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>>
>>>>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
>>>>> is voted in:
>>>
>>> I know nothing about this plan. Someone want to explain it in one
>>> sentence? Or point me at something to read?
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
>
>Every single one of the hits for as many pages i can count is an opinion
>piece about the plan which assumes you already know what the plan is.
>Which is why i asked.
>
>I really don't get why so many Americans are so violently opposed to an
>NHS-type system. It's comprehensively proven, by decades of experience in
>countries across the developed world, to be something that reduces costs
>and improves care. Why are Americans so attached to paying more for less?
>I just don't get it!

Well, of course you don't. You've apparently never needed an MRI or other high-tech treatment,
for which English and Canadians of means flee to the U.S....

even MoP's:

http://info.detnews.com/weblog/index.cfm?blogid=10560


Remember that a large part of expenditures in the USA for health care go to two sinks:

1) providing free or heavily subsidized care for noncitizens, and
2) paying for most R&D of new drugs and treatments, which subsequently are provided to other
countries' national plans at reduced rates.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:23:04 -0400, "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

>"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>newsmp_omelet-EAEFE5.10495020092007@news.giganews.com...
>> In article <5lfb9lF80ctcU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been on an HMO for several years now - no problems, no
>>> complaints.
>>> My doctor before the HMO is my doctor on the HMO, same with my wife
>>> and
>>> the kids, and we switched because it was better coverage than what we
>>> were getting and for less money. Some of that is, no doubt, due to
>>> the
>>> fact that our pre-HMO coverage was through our small business and our
>>> HMO coverage is through our teaching at the local community college,
>>> which means the plan covers a lot of state employees. Plans get
>>> better
>>> the bigger group, in my experience. But still, no complaints here.
>>>
>>> -S-
>>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>> It was HUMOR! ;-)
>
>No, it was political commentary that thought it was funny. I do not
>find the subject very amusing, I confess. Get to know a few people who
>can't afford health care and you'll see why.

Name three people who have been denied emergency care.

"Lucas Buck" <sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
newsg26f39fn2qtco1dcg7b53cs53qdgaqesh@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:23:04 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
.....
>>No, it was political commentary that thought it was funny. I do not
>>find the subject very amusing, I confess. Get to know a few people who
>>can't afford health care and you'll see why.
>
> Name three people who have been denied emergency care.

Here's a good one for starters:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...cal&id=5394674

But your "name three people ..." schtick is a straw man and you know it.
Lotta diffrence between getting adequate health care and getting emergency
care.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Lucas Buck wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:28:02 +0100, Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>>>>>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care
>>>>>> package is voted in:
>>
>> I really don't get why so many Americans are so violently opposed to an
>> NHS-type system. It's comprehensively proven, by decades of experience
>> in countries across the developed world, to be something that reduces
>> costs and improves care. Why are Americans so attached to paying more
>> for less? I just don't get it!
>
> Well, of course you don't. You've apparently never needed an MRI or
> other high-tech treatment, for which English and Canadians of means flee
> to the U.S....

Funny. My grandmother's had more brain scans of different types than i can
shake a stick at, all without leaving Wales. I don't accept that we have a
shortage of high-tech medicine here.

> even MoP's:
>
> http://info.detnews.com/weblog/index.cfm?blogid=10560

A rehash of:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...75093998182089

Which flatly contradicts the actual studies, which find little or no
difference between US and Canadian cancer survival rates - and when they
do, give Canada the advantage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...ompared#Cancer

I expect if you looked, you could find a few stories about health tourism
running the other way; this is why 'data' is not the plural of 'anecdote'.

> Remember that a large part of expenditures in the USA for health care go
> to two sinks:
>
> 1) providing free or heavily subsidized care for noncitizens, and

As we do in the UK - and we have plenty of them.

> 2) paying for most R&D of new drugs and treatments, which subsequently
> are provided to other countries' national plans at reduced rates.

Don't buy that in the slightest. The *healthcare* budget goes to funding
R&D? For products which are then sold in other countries for less than the
market will bear? Cite please.

If you mean that US medical purchasers are paying over the odds for drugs
(which i've read they are), and thus account for a greater share of the
profits drug companies use to fund R&D, fair enough. But that just goes to
show how bad the US system is at controlling costs.

tom

--
science fiction, old TV shows, sports, food, New York City topography,
and golden age hiphop

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:5lfdcrF7rl46U1@mid.individual.net...
> <kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1190296856.957905.261470@o80g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>> On Sep 20, 8:59 am, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is most likely what would happen if Hillary's health care package
>>>
>>> Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
>>> A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
>>
>> i always love these clauses.
>>
>> what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
>> doctor, the condition is pre-existing.
>
> Is this really an issue? We've switched insurance plans almost annually
> for most of the last 10-15 years - the wonders of being a small business
> and looking for decent rates - and the pre-existing condition issue has
> never come up. I've certainly got them, e.g., I take two asthma/allergy
> medicines every day, and it's never been an issue.
>
Asthma is a potentially serious health problem, but the need for medicine
and the occasional spirometry doesn't hit the insurance company coffers like
open heart surgery or a kidney transplant. If you were, for example, an
unemployed musician pulling on goat skins in your garage and needed an
entire medical group to keep you alive, pre-existing conditions might be a
more serious issue.

In article <5lgdqmF83s2sU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmp_omelet-EAEFE5.10495020092007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <5lfb9lF80ctcU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I've been on an HMO for several years now - no problems, no
> >> complaints.
> >> My doctor before the HMO is my doctor on the HMO, same with my wife
> >> and
> >> the kids, and we switched because it was better coverage than what we
> >> were getting and for less money. Some of that is, no doubt, due to
> >> the
> >> fact that our pre-HMO coverage was through our small business and our
> >> HMO coverage is through our teaching at the local community college,
> >> which means the plan covers a lot of state employees. Plans get
> >> better
> >> the bigger group, in my experience. But still, no complaints here.
> >>
> >> -S-
> >> http://www.kbnj.com
> >
> > It was HUMOR! ;-)
>
> No, it was political commentary that thought it was funny. I do not
> find the subject very amusing, I confess. Get to know a few people who
> can't afford health care and you'll see why.

Oddly enough, the people that fall within a certain income level can get
Medicaid. A certain amount of subsidized health care already exists in
the US.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <2277@282953424.199195636.2299.2188.24075>,
DZ <29594@202001915.96012677.6822.16908.8100> wrote:

> Omelet <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> >> It's comprehensively proven, by decades of experience in
> >> countries across the developed world, to be something that reduces costs
> >> and improves care. Why are Americans so attached to paying more for less?
> >
> > Because of the experiences of other countries.
>
> That's what he said... Anyway, what makes health care in rodents
> different from many other sectors of capitalistic relations is that
> people would be willing to give all money they have, and more, if the
> illness is sufficiently life-threatening.
>
> I inserted "rodents" so that you stop reading at that point and
> proclaim "we are not rodents!!!"

Some people are... ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <46f30e13$0$32466$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Name three people who have been denied emergency care.
>
> Here's a good one for starters:
> http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...cal&id=5394674

That one had nothing to do with money.
That had to do with negligence and stupidity.

The Newspaper article was plastered all over the bulletin boards where I
work.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-E7AD67.08333521092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <5lgdqmF83s2sU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsmp_omelet-EAEFE5.10495020092007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <5lfb9lF80ctcU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've been on an HMO for several years now - no problems, no
>> >> complaints.
>> >> My doctor before the HMO is my doctor on the HMO, same with my
>> >> wife
>> >> and
>> >> the kids, and we switched because it was better coverage than what
>> >> we
>> >> were getting and for less money. Some of that is, no doubt, due
>> >> to
>> >> the
>> >> fact that our pre-HMO coverage was through our small business and
>> >> our
>> >> HMO coverage is through our teaching at the local community
>> >> college,
>> >> which means the plan covers a lot of state employees. Plans get
>> >> better
>> >> the bigger group, in my experience. But still, no complaints
>> >> here.
>> >>
>> >> -S-
>> >> http://www.kbnj.com
>> >
>> > It was HUMOR! ;-)
>>
>> No, it was political commentary that thought it was funny. I do not
>> find the subject very amusing, I confess. Get to know a few people
>> who
>> can't afford health care and you'll see why.
>
> Oddly enough, the people that fall within a certain income level can
> get
> Medicaid. A certain amount of subsidized health care already exists
> in
> the US.

That level of income, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't vary
according to location. Where I live, it's ludicrously low. Medicare is
no great thing, either - my parents are now in the "doughnut" of the
drug coverage and will probably spend, ah, never mind.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their
> foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

In article <5li0afF8cgp1U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> > Oddly enough, the people that fall within a certain income level can
> > get
> > Medicaid. A certain amount of subsidized health care already exists
> > in
> > the US.
>
> That level of income, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't vary
> according to location. Where I live, it's ludicrously low.

It is here too, but you can make more if you have kids, and the more of
those you have, the more money they will give you.

> Medicare is
> no great thing, either - my parents are now in the "doughnut" of the
> drug coverage and will probably spend, ah, never mind.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

They did not participate in the Medicare drug program?
We are lucky I guess that dad does not need meds.

Dad had to have an emergency Appendectomy April of 2006.

The total bill from the hospital, the surgeon, the Anesthesiologist and
the Ambulance totaled around $16,000. He only stayed there 2 days until
they got his blood pressure to stay high enough. Septic shock can be a
real killer...

Anyway, we are still paying off $4,000 of that. Dad did not have
Medicare part B, just part A and they paid all but $950.00 of the
original $12,800 hospital bill. Medicare A won't pay for the ambulance
or the docs.

If he had had Medicare B, that would have covered nearly all of it
except for the 911 response. That was $650.00.

Medicare is actually not too bad if you know how to play the game.

The nice thing about paying the medical bills directly in increments is
that it's interest free... You just have to be reliable about the
monthly payments. We are shelling out $150.00 per month for 3 bills.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-D60E37.09265821092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <5li0afF8cgp1U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> > Oddly enough, the people that fall within a certain income level
>> > can
>> > get
>> > Medicaid. A certain amount of subsidized health care already
>> > exists
>> > in
>> > the US.
>>
>> That level of income, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't vary
>> according to location. Where I live, it's ludicrously low.
>
> It is here too, but you can make more if you have kids, and the more
> of
> those you have, the more money they will give you.
>
>> Medicare is
>> no great thing, either - my parents are now in the "doughnut" of the
>> drug coverage and will probably spend, ah, never mind.
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> They did not participate in the Medicare drug program?

My parents have Medicare drug coverage, but the way it works is that
there is a hole in the middle - you get most of the drugs paid for up to
a certain amount per year, then you have to pay for them yourself for
the next few thousand dollars, then the coverage kicks back in after
that threshold has been reached. My parents hit the doughnut hole, as
it's called, over the summer.

They are on one of several "medicare wrapper" insurance programs,
whereby everyone deals with an insurance company and the insurance
company bills the government. The rules aren't any different, but I get
the feeling the insurance company gets a volume discount from the
government for doing it this way and, as a result, the premiums are very
low. The 'reward' is not having to deal with medicare directly.

-S-

> We are lucky I guess that dad does not need meds.
>
> Dad had to have an emergency Appendectomy April of 2006.
>
> The total bill from the hospital, the surgeon, the Anesthesiologist
> and
> the Ambulance totaled around $16,000. He only stayed there 2 days
> until
> they got his blood pressure to stay high enough. Septic shock can be a
> real killer...
>
> Anyway, we are still paying off $4,000 of that. Dad did not have
> Medicare part B, just part A and they paid all but $950.00 of the
> original $12,800 hospital bill. Medicare A won't pay for the ambulance
> or the docs.
>
> If he had had Medicare B, that would have covered nearly all of it
> except for the 911 response. That was $650.00.
>
> Medicare is actually not too bad if you know how to play the game.
>
> The nice thing about paying the medical bills directly in increments
> is
> that it's interest free... You just have to be reliable about the
> monthly payments. We are shelling out $150.00 per month for 3 bills.
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their
> foot down." -- Steve Rothstein

On Sep 20, 10:00 am, "kcmunch...@gmail.com" <kcmunch...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sep 20, 8:59 am, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is most likely what would happen ifHillary'shealthcarepackage
>
> > Q. Can I get coverage for my pre-existing conditions?
> > A. Certainly, as long as they don't require any treatment.
>
> i always love these clauses.
>
> what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
> doctor, the condition is pre-existing.

> what that translates to is: if you're alive before you see the
> doctor, the condition is pre-existing.

I can make broad statements too.

The leading and sole cause of death is birth.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:19:32 -0700, "Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Lucas Buck" <sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
>newsg26f39fn2qtco1dcg7b53cs53qdgaqesh@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:23:04 -0400, "Steve Freides"
>> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>....
>>>No, it was political commentary that thought it was funny. I do not
>>>find the subject very amusing, I confess. Get to know a few people who
>>>can't afford health care and you'll see why.
>>
>> Name three people who have been denied emergency care.
>
>Here's a good one for starters:
>http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...cal&id=5394674

Um, no. Misdiagnosis != being denied care. They had exactly the same ACCESS to exactly
the same care there as if they had full-boat private insurance, or cash.

That said, some things to note about the story:

1) again, we're talking about people here illegally (research it) seeking help on the taxpayer dime.

2) the reporter's story is inconsistent, so wherein lies the truth? (Example: the "brother" is
referred to by two different surnames)

>But your "name three people ..." schtick is a straw man and you know it.
>Lotta diffrence between getting adequate health care and getting emergency
>care.


Depends on how you define "adequate".

How about this guy, whose abuses the emergency room 1200 times in a five-year span:

Man visits emergency room 1,200 times in five years
(09-10-01)

OAKLAND — It’s a mystery, Gregory Goins insists, why his chest begins to hurt when it does.
He might be riding the bus, walking down the street, dozing on a park bench or smoking a cigarette.
Suddenly, the pain comes on, spreading through his rib cage, and Goins remembers just how sick a man
he is.
That’s when his thoughts turn to the emergency room at Highland Hospital. He knows there are doctors
and nurses there, ready to help. There are medicines and EKG machines. There are sandwiches.
So Goins finds the nearest pay phone, punches 911, and soon the ambulance comes.
Every day now, the ambulance comes.
Goins is the ultimate “frequent flier,” the label that emergency-room workers give their most
regular visitors. He has been to Highland Hospital’s emergency room more than 1,200 times since
1996, recently at the rate of once or twice a day.
His case, while extreme, is rooted in a widespread problem: America’s emergency rooms face a growing
crush of patients, many uninsured and lacking other access to medical care. Among them are regular
visitors who look to emergency rooms to provide food, human interaction or perhaps just a warm place
to sit for a while.
No one else might consider their needs an emergency. But those patients do, and that’s enough to get
them in the door.
“There’s a moral and legal obligation to take every complaint seriously,” said Dr. Richard O’Brien,
a spokesman for the American College of Emergency Physicians. He considers frequent fliers an
unavoidable part of the job.
“Rock stars go deaf. Football players break bones,” he said. “And emergency-room physicians deal
with challenging patients.”
Like Gregory Goins.
His emergency-room visits, ambulance rides and hospital stays have cost taxpayers an estimated
$900,000. He has been called a shameless manipulator of the system, a burden on overworked nurses
and doctors and a danger to other citizens in need of ambulances and hospital beds.
Goins is all of this. But he is something else, as well. The staff at Highland hate to see him
coming, yet many miss him when he stays away. Amid the emergency room’s anonymous stream of injury
and illness, there is comfort in a familiar face — even when it belongs to someone as maddening as
Goins.
“Gregory, Gregory, Gregory.” The sheriff’s deputy shakes his head as Goins is wheeled in for the
1,209th time. The triage area is noisy and crowded. Nurses dart back and forth. Paramedics squeeze
gurneys into the hallway, jockeying for position.
Highland is a public hospital on the south side of Oakland, a county facility that takes all comers.
Some can pay; many others, like Goins, cannot.
“Gregory!” a nurse shouts. “I haven’t seen you for a while.”
“You gotta be kidding me,” another nurse says. “This is his second time this week for me.”
“Get him out of the way!” the triage nurse barks, as yet another gurney arrives. “We’ve got a
medical code coming in.”
A thermometer is stuck into Goins’ mouth, and a paramedic briefs one of the nurses: Patient was
walking along Lakeshore Avenue when he developed chest pains and shortness of breath. CP/SOB, the
nurse writes on Goins’ chart. The usual.
In a few minutes, they’ll take him back to an exam room for tests. For now, Goins remains parked by
the wall, haranguing everyone near him.
“Hey, Shorty.” “Hey, man, can you get me a soda?” “Nurse, nurse, can I ask you something? Will you
marry me?” “Officer, arrest that man.” “Got a quarter?” “Hey, you know me?”
Everyone here knows Goins.
Doctors and nurses call him Greg. Guards and paramedics call him “Shamu,” after the SeaWorld whale,
a nickname bestowed a few years ago when he weighed more than 300 pounds.
He is 60 pounds lighter now, more walrus than whale, with a belly that bulges out through his
unbuttoned shirt and hangs over beltless pants that keep sliding down to his knees. Even his smile
is walrus-like, with two yellow tusks poking out from an otherwise empty upper gum.
He is 47 years old, penniless, jobless and, until recently, homeless. He has a history of cocaine
abuse, although he said he is off drugs now. A psychologist recently pegged his IQ at 60, apparently
missing his genius for bumming cigarettes from strangers or cajoling lunch from softhearted doctors.
Highland’s emergency room is the center of his universe, one of the few places where people actually
talk to him.
They cannot make him go away, because Goins is truly ill. He has alarmingly high blood pressure, a
chronic condition that has thickened the walls of his heart and made him vulnerable to strokes and
heart attacks. Last year, blood vessels in his brain hemorrhaged, producing a massive stroke that
doctors were sure would kill him.
Goins somehow survived, barely worse for the wear, and now he and the doctors at Highland have
settled into a routine: He summons an ambulance once or twice a day. Emergency-room staff hook him
up to an electrocardiograph, confirm that he’s within his usual readings and admonish him to take
his blood-pressure pills. On the way out, Goins tosses his prescriptions into the trash, thereby
ensuring more trips to the emergency room.
“I think he is faking, manipulating quite a bit,” said Dr. Barry Simon, director of Highland’s
emergency department. “But the reason he’s so difficult is that we all feel we’re playing Russian
roulette with him. He has malignant, accelerated, uncontrolled, near-death hypertension. Given that,
in the face of chest pains, nobody in their right mind would ever send him home.”
Not that they have time for Goins’ daily appearances. Highland’s ER doctors are hard-pressed to
serve the 68,000 patients that stream through their doors annually. During Goins’ visit this day,
five gurneys are lined up in the hall outside his examining room, all bearing patients awaiting
beds.
“We need to pay attention to the people we really think we can help,” said Simon. “Every distraction
puts other patients at risk. When I have to come out to the triage area to talk to Gregory again,
after he’s cried wolf a thousand times, it’s a major distraction.”
It’s also a significant drain on resources. No national surveys exist, but a study at San Francisco
General Hospital found that just 6 percent of ER patients there accounted for 25 percent of all
visits.
Some doctors argue that Goins is not really the problem. Emergency rooms have always had frequent
fliers, and in less crisis-driven times, they often were given a bed for a while, then sent home
with a sandwich and some clothes from the free box.
But this is an era of huge medical costs, forced efficiencies and overwhelmed emergency rooms.
Goins said he appreciates what people are doing for him, but he doesn’t see his frequent visits to
Highland as something he needs to change.
“Last year, they told me my bill was a quarter-million dollars,” he said. “I said, ’So what? I’m
sick. Take care of me.”’