How Scripted is Bodybuilding?

Considering that it is openly admitted that wrestling is scripted and the
winners are mapped out ahead of time for the entire wrestling season, what
are the odds that bodybuilding is just as fake and scripted??

I personally saw the Pumping Iron movie as being just about Arnold. Even
though the movie was a lot of fun and it introduced some great bodybuilders
to the world, I don't think anyone who sees that movie can feel any suspense
about who is going to win. When Joe Weider gets interviewed, it is obvious
that Arnold is his man, and Weider ran the contest so what are the odds
anyone else would win?

Considering that the Mr. Olympia contest was created just to promote the
IFBB, any belief that the contest is actually honest is misplaced. The IFBB
has never had any scandal relating to any of its champions, and when Muscle
Media and other magazines started talking openly about steroid use, the IFBB
responded by making Ronnie Coleman, a Texas police officer, as their
champion for eight years.

Only a few years ago Craig Titus was a top competitor. Just like Lou
Ferrigno and other guys that Joe Weider felt had personality problems, Titus
would never win the Mr. O. Now he is in prison for murder. Anyone that
thinks that the Mr. O competition is just about bodybuilding is fooling
themselves. The Weiders and their new owners run that tighter than the Miss
America contest.

AL wrote:
> Considering that it is openly admitted that wrestling is scripted and the
> winners are mapped out ahead of time for the entire wrestling season, what
> are the odds that bodybuilding is just as fake and scripted??

Anything's possible, but I suspect it's easier to fake and script a
wrestling match than it is to do the same with a bodybuilding
competition. At least to any extreme degree. Imagine one competitor
misses their peak or spills over while another competitor looks full
and shredded. A script is not going to make the audience buy the
fugged competitor as the winner whereas a wrestling match is much
easier to fix it in convincing fashion.

> I personally saw the Pumping Iron movie as being just about Arnold.

Initially, I don't believe that was the movie's intent, however Arnold
just stole the show. No surprise.

> Even though the movie was a lot of fun and it introduced some great
> bodybuilders to the world,

Agreed.

> I don't think anyone who sees that movie can feel any suspense
> about who is going to win.

But how much of that lack of suspense can be attributed to the fact
that we've all had the opportunity of seeing the movie over and over
and over during the past 25 years?

> When Joe Weider gets interviewed, it is obvious that Arnold is his man,
> and Weider ran the contest so what are the odds anyone else would win?

One in three? I mean, it was Arnold, Lou, or Serge Nubret. By way of
unsolicited trivia, Nubret hadn't been training or dieting for about
two weeks prior to the contest as he'd been shut out of the
competition. That proved temporary, fortunately, until Ben Weider
relented and allowed him to compete under threat of 42 countries
pulling out of the Mr. Universe competition which was taking place at
the same time in South Africa. The tall class would have been pretty
sad with just two competitors had Nubret not competed, imo.

> Considering that the Mr. Olympia contest was created just to promote the
> IFBB, any belief that the contest is actually honest is misplaced.

Again, anything is possible. Nonetheless, I'd like to think the
contest is honest enough. It's subjective. At that level anyone could
win and probably be applauded. Gaspari, Ferrigno, Wheeler, Levrone?
Who would argue against any of those men having been awarded an O? No
one. Okay, a small percentage of the planet.

> The IFBB has never had any scandal relating to any of its champions, and when

What? Victor Martinez much?

Scandal might be the characterization some would make of Martinez
getting "caught selling steroids to a New York City undercover police
officer in 2004," according to an article in the San Francisco
Chronicle.

And Martinez and Ronnie Coleman were both on a list of clients in an
investigation that led to raids on several pharmacies in Florida
according to the New York Daily News.

Plus, perhaps you're familiar with former IFBB competitor Craig Titus'
current situation? Bertil Fox doing time for a double murder?

There's been scandal.

> Muscle Media and other magazines started talking openly about steroid use,
> the IFBB responded by making Ronnie Coleman, a Texas police officer, as
> their champion for eight years.

Where'd you read that? Nice thought, however it dismisses the fact
that Ronnie Coleman was seemingly from another planet wrt physical
development on many more than just one occasion. The fix is in? Not
when it comes to Coleman's wins.

> Only a few years ago Craig Titus was a top competitor. <snip>

Top competitor? No higher than 6th at the Arnold and an 11th and 12th
at the two Olympias he competed in doesn't necessarily qualify him as
a top competitor, imo.

> Titus would never win the Mr. O.

Doesn't look like that's going to change either.

> Now he is in prison for murder.

And? Your personal assistant overdoses on drugs. What do you do? Oh, I
know, Taser her, wrap her head in duct tape, throw her in the trunk of
a Jaguar, and then just light that sucker on FIRE! Works for me.

Shame he's in prison. Perfectly sensible thing to do.

> Anyone that thinks that the Mr. O competition is just about bodybuilding is
> fooling themselves.

It's about money, of course. Most things are. But for the fans, it's
about sport. It's about entertainment. So what if Joe Weider is
bodybuilding's P.T. Barnum? I don't care. He's put on a very good
show, imo.

> The Weiders and their new owners run that tighter than the Miss America
> contest.

Hey, speaking of the Miss America contest, MORE unsolicited trivia. I
graduated from Ephrata Senior High School where they had two large
portraits displayed of Evelyn Ay, 1954 Miss America; and Mike Mentzer,
1976 IFBB Mr. America.

--
Curt

On Aug 16, 1:14 am, "AL" <alfredogar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Considering that it is openly admitted that wrestling is scripted and the
> winners are mapped out ahead of time for the entire wrestling season, what
> are the odds that bodybuilding is just as fake and scripted??
>
> I personally saw the Pumping Iron movie as being just about Arnold. Even
> though the movie was a lot of fun and it introduced some great bodybuilders
> to the world, I don't think anyone who sees that movie can feel any suspense
> about who is going to win. When Joe Weider gets interviewed, it is obvious
> that Arnold is his man, and Weider ran the contest so what are the odds
> anyone else would win?
>
> Considering that the Mr. Olympia contest was created just to promote the
> IFBB, any belief that the contest is actually honest is misplaced. The IFBB
> has never had any scandal relating to any of its champions, and when Muscle
> Media and other magazines started talking openly about steroid use, the IFBB
> responded by making Ronnie Coleman, a Texas police officer, as their
> champion for eight years.
>
> Only a few years ago Craig Titus was a top competitor. Just like Lou
> Ferrigno and other guys that Joe Weider felt had personality problems, Titus
> would never win the Mr. O. Now he is in prison for murder. Anyone that
> thinks that the Mr. O competition is just about bodybuilding is fooling
> themselves. The Weiders and their new owners run that tighter than the Miss
> America contest.


Interesting. Good point.

I knew there was something fishy about wimpy weider...and you know
what, that comes from reading MFW! In the sense that he seems like
one of the MFW egomaniacs (confirmed when I saw that photo of his
scrawny ass trying to pass himself off as a bodybuilder -- even before
steroids he would have been considered a shoelace)...so I was thinking
that there must be shady business going on behind the curtains....

I came across a site where some former bodybuilder has an audio file
of Craig Titus on the phone from prison -- as well as a video of him
being bound and hooded by prison SWAT-like guards -- and the site's
point seems to be that pro bodybuilding is...satanic!!!

Weird shit; I wouldn't be surprised if it's full of gays and Jews....
=)

On Aug 16, 3:16 am, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Anything's possible, but I suspect it's easier to fake and script a
> wrestling match than it is to do the same with a bodybuilding
> competition. At least to any extreme degree. Imagine one competitor
> misses their peak or spills over while another competitor looks full
> and shredded. A script is not going to make the audience buy the
> fugged competitor as the winner whereas a wrestling match is much
> easier to fix it in convincing fashion.

Anything's possible in an unlimited universe, perhaps, but not
everything is probable...but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a
sort of loose "running script," at least among the judges,
involved...it seems probable given that this is, as you note below, a
business, and entertainment, and there's been instances of "gifting
giving" at the O already....

> Initially, I don't believe that was the movie's intent, however Arnold
> just stole the show. No surprise.

Not sure that he "stole" the show; they really didn't showcase anyone
else's personalities much, except maybe Lou, and even then that was in
a supporting role, really.

> Agreed.

What's really interesting to me is that there's not been a whole slew
of bodybuilding documentaries since then (at least nothing that seemed
to have seen fame and fortune).

> But how much of that lack of suspense can be attributed to the fact
> that we've all had the opportunity of seeing the movie over and over
> and over during the past 25 years?

Um, I only saw the flick this year for the very first time and I
wasn't in suspense at all. Actually, I wasn't even really sure what
the heck was the "plot" or narrative arc...reminds me of me and my
friends as kids playing with He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
action figures...never in doubt what would happen....

> One in three? I mean, it was Arnold, Lou, or Serge Nubret. By way of
> unsolicited trivia, Nubret hadn't been training or dieting for about
> two weeks prior to the contest as he'd been shut out of the
> competition. That proved temporary, fortunately, until Ben Weider
> relented and allowed him to compete under threat of 42 countries
> pulling out of the Mr. Universe competition which was taking place at
> the same time in South Africa. The tall class would have been pretty
> sad with just two competitors had Nubret not competed, imo.

Jesus, what fucking drama. Another sign that wimpy weider is an MFW
hallway monitor....

> Again, anything is possible. Nonetheless, I'd like to think the
> contest is honest enough. It's subjective. At that level anyone could
> win and probably be applauded. Gaspari, Ferrigno, Wheeler, Levrone?
> Who would argue against any of those men having been awarded an O? No
> one. Okay, a small percentage of the planet.

Aha! You agree, then, that they all look alike....

> What? Victor Martinez much?
>
> Scandal might be the characterization some would make of Martinez
> getting "caught selling steroids to a New York City undercover police
> officer in 2004," according to an article in the San Francisco
> Chronicle.
>
> And Martinez and Ronnie Coleman were both on a list of clients in an
> investigation that led to raids on several pharmacies in Florida
> according to the New York Daily News.
>
> Plus, perhaps you're familiar with former IFBB competitor Craig Titus'
> current situation? Bertil Fox doing time for a double murder?
>
> There's been scandal.

They really ought to cover that stuff much more in the muscle mags;
better than reading the same ol' "secret tips" of training and
nutrition...how about some Page Six journalism...even Sports
Illustrated gets personal....

> Where'd you read that? Nice thought, however it dismisses the fact
> that Ronnie Coleman was seemingly from another planet wrt physical
> development on many more than just one occasion. The fix is in? Not
> when it comes to Coleman's wins.

It's an interesting coincidence he notes, though; just when 'roids
were being discussed (presumably in a negative light), the biggest
dude ever comes out and stays in....

> Top competitor? No higher than 6th at the Arnold and an 11th and 12th
> at the two Olympias he competed in doesn't necessarily qualify him as
> a top competitor, imo.

That's tops to me -- was he a big spokesmodel for any of 'em
supplement companies? That, more than anything else, determines
placement -- money talking and all that....

> Doesn't look like that's going to change either.

Actually, it'd be pretty cool if he won the O -- a more incredible
come-back than Arnold in '82! (Or whatever the exact year was.)

> And? Your personal assistant overdoses on drugs. What do you do? Oh, I
> know, Taser her, wrap her head in duct tape, throw her in the trunk of
> a Jaguar, and then just light that sucker on FIRE! Works for me.
>
> Shame he's in prison. Perfectly sensible thing to do.

Well, I think there was some kinda kinky three-way sex involved...and
Kelly probably killed her during rough sex or something....

> It's about money, of course. Most things are. But for the fans, it's
> about sport. It's about entertainment. So what if Joe Weider is
> bodybuilding's P.T. Barnum? I don't care. He's put on a very good
> show, imo.

Yep, the comparison seems apt -- "there's a sucker born every minute"
seems to be his ethos, too.

> Hey, speaking of the Miss America contest, MORE unsolicited trivia. I
> graduated from Ephrata Senior High School where they had two large
> portraits displayed of Evelyn Ay, 1954 Miss America; and Mike Mentzer,
> 1976 IFBB Mr. America.

LOL -- bodybuilding must be contagious...!

> --
> Curt

Prisoner at War wrote:
[...]

> I came across a site where some former bodybuilder has an audio file
> of Craig Titus on the phone from prison -- as well as a video of him
> being bound and hooded by prison SWAT-like guards -- and the site's
> point seems to be that pro bodybuilding is...satanic!!!

Muscle Mission or some crap. He's extreme and misguided, imo.

(YouTubes)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZAMfyhE1fY

> Weird shit; I wouldn't be surprised if it's full of gays and Jews....
> =)

You're extreme and misguided though, too, imo. What's with you and Joe
Weider? Successful businessman, old guy now, skinny guy then. If I was
criticizing him at all it'd be about his hair implants or transplants.
Joe Biden, Joe Weider. Must be a Joe thing. Now, THAT's some weird sh!
t.

Regardless, your seeming pejorative use of "gays and Jews" is
unappreciated at best.

Give it a rest? No, that would be reasonable.

--
Curt

PaW wrote:
> Curt wrote:
[...]

> > Hey, speaking of the Miss America contest, MORE unsolicited trivia. I
> > graduated from Ephrata Senior High School where they had two large
> > portraits displayed of Evelyn Ay, 1954 Miss America; and Mike Mentzer,
> > 1976 IFBB Mr. America.
>
> LOL -- bodybuilding must be contagious...!

Uh, Evelyn Ay wasn't a bodybuilder. They both, however, were residents
of Ephrata, Pennsylvania for a time. Ray, Mike's brother and 1979's
AAU Mr. America, was a 30 pin member on the Ephrata High School
wrestling team.

--
Curt

On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Muscle Mission or some crap. He's extreme and misguided, imo.
>
> (YouTubes)
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZAMfyhE1fY

Yeah, that's it! Wow...lucky you're not working for jmw, LOL....

> You're extreme and misguided though, too, imo. What's with you and Joe
> Weider? Successful businessman, old guy now, skinny guy then. If I was
> criticizing him at all it'd be about his hair implants or transplants.
> Joe Biden, Joe Weider. Must be a Joe thing. Now, THAT's some weird sh!
> t.

What are you talking about -- I already told you that this weider wimp
is all over the place like an MFW hallway monitor. The more I find
out about him the more he reads like an egomaniac who mistakes his
luck for talent. I see that he's a vindictive little ass who's been
trying to keep his monopoly on bodybuilding the way some MFW blowhard
tries to dictate what's a good post for the group -- interesting it's
the same personality traits that come out in bodybuilding....

> Regardless, your seeming pejorative use of "gays and Jews" is
> unappreciated at best.

Not my fault there are so many gays and Jews in bodybuilding!

> Give it a rest? No, that would be reasonable.

Give what a rest? I'm just fascinated that there are so many gays,
Jews, and satanic worshippers in pro bodybuilding!!

> --
> Curt

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1187291357.908729.126260@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
......

>> Regardless, your seeming pejorative use of "gays and Jews" is
>> unappreciated at best.
>
> Not my fault there are so many gays and Jews in bodybuilding!
>
>> Give it a rest? No, that would be reasonable.
>
> Give what a rest? I'm just fascinated that there are so many gays,
> Jews, and satanic worshippers in pro bodybuilding!!

If you wonder why you piss off people, dumbass bigoted comments like this
are a good reason. And if you're going to make them, at least have enough
sack to stand by them rather than backpeddle.

And while we're at it, your bragging about your body like you're hot shit is
pathetic and offputting, too. Your pics show some development but are not
real impressive, and definitely don't warrant your bragging. You look stocky
and a bit overweight. If you have some good before/after pics to contrast
and show your transformation, maybe those will impress but your pics alone
certainly don't.

On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Prisoner at War wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I came across a site where some formerbodybuilderhas an audio file
> > of Craig Titus on the phone from prison -- as well as a video of him
> > being bound and hooded by prison SWAT-like guards -- and the site's
> > point seems to be that pro bodybuilding is...satanic!!!
>
> Muscle Mission or some crap. He's extreme and misguided, imo.
>
> (YouTubes)
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZAMfyhE1fY
>
> > Weird shit; I wouldn't be surprised if it's full of gays and Jews....
> > =)
>
> You're extreme and misguided though, too, imo. What's with you and Joe
> Weider? Successful businessman, old guy now, skinny guy then. If I was
> criticizing him at all it'd be about his hair implants or transplants.
> Joe Biden, Joe Weider. Must be a Joe thing. Now, THAT's some weird sh!
> t.
>
> Regardless, your seeming pejorative use of "gays and Jews" is
> unappreciated at best.
>
> Give it a rest? No, that would be reasonable.
>
> --
> Curt

Both homophobic and anti-semtetic. I doubt that there is any "proof"
that the prcentage of gays are greater in those participating in
bodybuilding than in the population at large! And how many Jewish
bodybuilders can you name?

On Aug 16, 4:27 pm, "Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> If you wonder why you piss off people, dumbass bigoted comments like this
> are a good reason. And if you're going to make them, at least have enough
> sack to stand by them rather than backpeddle.

Who's back peddling?? I stand by all I say.

And fuck you if you think Jews are some kind of protected class. So
many great Jewish comedians but you can't joke about Jews unless
you're Jewish? Fucking wieners -- or is that weiner?

> And while we're at it, your bragging about your body like you're hot shit is
> pathetic and offputting, too. Your pics show some development but are not
> real impressive, and definitely don't warrant your bragging. You look stocky
> and a bit overweight. If you have some good before/after pics to contrast
> and show your transformation, maybe those will impress but your pics alone
> certainly don't.

I don't know what "hot shit" is; all I ever said was that I have the
body of a wrestler, and that's from simple calisthenics and jogging.
Also, the photos are not studio quality, which means that whatever
development you actually can see even at that reduced resolution and
size only means it's much more pronounced in person (not to mention
all the development which the camera doesn't pick up).

And of course I'm a bit overweight; I said I've gained ten pounds from
creatine alone, and I was at least twenty pounds over my goal (and a
good forty over from my fighting best as an infantryman).

The point of the photos wasn't to impress you faggots, it was to
finally do some before and after photos like I'd been meaning to.
When Steve Friedes challenged me to post (again; he's forgotten my
post from like two years ago when I was slimmer), I figured it was a
good reason to finally do it already.

I'll be benching 315 within another two months...I expect to take
another six to drop thirty pounds...you'll see -- but whether you are
impressed or not isn't the point. The point is that simple
calisthenics and jogging can get you a body like mine, without all
this steroid rocket science you guys like to substitute for good ol'
fashioned Army P.T.

On Aug 16, 6:16 pm, Mike <fiftiesmusc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Both homophobic and anti-semtetic.

Why? Because I put gays and Jews together, or because I said "gays"
and "Jews"?

Why aren't you sticking up for the satanists, too??

> I doubt that there is any "proof"
> that the prcentage of gays are greater in those participating in
> bodybuilding than in the population at large!

I don't know; that's why I didn't make no such claim.

> And how many Jewish
> bodybuilders can you name?


Gee, weider and weider, according to M&F....

As for gays, well, let's see: bub shoe, jm-double-u, lilly brink...do
you also want their phone numbers or something?

"Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail> wrote:
> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_...@yahoo> wrote
[...]
> > Not my fault there are so many gays and Jews in bodybuilding!
[...]
> > Give what a rest? I'm just fascinated that there are so many gays,
> > Jews, and satanic worshippers in pro bodybuilding!!
>
> If you wonder why you piss off people, dumbass bigoted comments like this
> are a good reason. And if you're going to make them, at least have enough
> sack to stand by them rather than backpeddle.
>
> And while we're at it, your bragging about your body like you're hot shit is
> pathetic and offputting, too. Your pics show some development but are not
> real impressive, and definitely don't warrant your bragging. You look stocky
> and a bit overweight. If you have some good before/after pics to contrast
> and show your transformation, maybe those will impress but your pics alone
> certainly don't.

While I don't consider myself a bandwagon jumper at all, your
assessment is spot on, imo. Sadly.

--
Curt

PaW wrote:
[...]

> <snip> So many great Jewish comedians but you can't joke
> about Jews unless you're Jewish? Fucking wieners -- or is
> that weiner?

It's neither. It's y-o-u.

Where was the joke in what you wrote? I must've missed that. And I'd
like to think I've got at least a half-assed somethingsomething for
humor. (

[...]

> I don't know what "hot shit" is; all I ever said was that I have the
> body of a wrestler,

I'm almost certain there was something in there about Greek god, too.
I may be mistaken, of course.

> and that's from simple calisthenics and jogging.
> Also, the photos are not studio quality, which means that whatever
> development you actually can see even at that reduced resolution and
> size only means it's much more pronounced in person (not to mention
> all the development which the camera doesn't pick up).

Holy crap. You need to stop talking.

> And of course I'm a bit overweight; I said I've gained ten pounds from
> creatine alone, and I was at least twenty pounds over my goal (and a
> good forty over from my fighting best as an infantryman).

Fighting best! Yeesh. As an infantryman, did you ever actually fight?
I was in the Navy for five years and the only fight I had was outside
a Burger King. Or maybe it was a Hardee's.

> The point of the photos wasn't to impress you faggots, it was to
> finally do some before and after photos like I'd been meaning to.
> When Steve Friedes challenged me to post (again; he's forgotten my
> post from like two years ago when I was slimmer), I figured it was a
> good reason to finally do it already.

Freides challenged you? I thought he simply asked you to put up or
shut up. You put up. Good for you. Kudos in fact. I said as much in a
previous post. But you've done nothing but dig a hole for yourself
otherwise.

> I'll be benching 315 within another two months...

Get this... what if you fail with six plates and the only person
around to get the bar off your bigoted "just joking" neck is a
homosexual or Joe Weider?

--
Curt

"Curt" <> Where was the joke in what you wrote? I must've missed that. And
I'd
> like to think I've got at least a half-assed somethingsomething for
> humor. (
>
>
Curt, you have turned into such a p*ssy that I may have to killfile you
because you are so annoyingly politically correct. I wonder what happened to
you.

I used to find your postings to be humorous, but now they are just pathetic.
It is like meeting an old friend who was on the football team and who later
got castrated and is now a eunich.

"Prisoner at War" <> Why aren't you sticking up for the satanists, too??
>
>

I think there is no doubt that there are a lot of satanists, this is a
partial list:

Craig Titus and his bisexual wife
Arnold
Mike Mentzer
Joe Weider
Ben Weider
all lesbian bodybuilding women (95%)
Eugene Sandow
Charles Atlas
Sergio Oliva

Al Bino wrote:

> Curt, you have turned into such a p*ssy

Al, did you realize that you substituted what I'm assuming could be a
vowel with an asterisk?

> that I may have to killfile you because you are so
> annoyingly politically correct.

Furthermore, did you go on to criticize *me* for being politically
correct? D

Hey, I'm no expert wrt irony, but that strikes me as kinda laughable.

> I wonder what happened to you.

Born again.

Jesus said he'd shove a sandal up my ass if I posted anything
inappropriate.

> I used to find your postings to be humorous,

Oooh. That's a warning sign, Al.

> but now they are just pathetic.

Cool.

> It is like meeting an old friend who was on the
> football team and who later got castrated and
> is now a eunich.

I've heard eunuch's are pretty good spellers. ;o)

Anyway, sorry to disappoint you.

--
Curt

"AL" <alfredogarcia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s3Rwi.3120$wN3.1041@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Considering that it is openly admitted that wrestling is scripted and the
> winners are mapped out ahead of time for the entire wrestling season, what
> are the odds that bodybuilding is just as fake and scripted??
>
> I personally saw the Pumping Iron movie as being just about Arnold. Even
> though the movie was a lot of fun and it introduced some great
> bodybuilders
> to the world, I don't think anyone who sees that movie can feel any
> suspense
> about who is going to win. When Joe Weider gets interviewed, it is obvious
> that Arnold is his man, and Weider ran the contest so what are the odds
> anyone else would win?
>
> Considering that the Mr. Olympia contest was created just to promote the
> IFBB, any belief that the contest is actually honest is misplaced. The
> IFBB
> has never had any scandal relating to any of its champions, and when
> Muscle
> Media and other magazines started talking openly about steroid use, the
> IFBB
> responded by making Ronnie Coleman, a Texas police officer, as their
> champion for eight years.
>
> Only a few years ago Craig Titus was a top competitor. Just like Lou
> Ferrigno and other guys that Joe Weider felt had personality problems,
> Titus
> would never win the Mr. O. Now he is in prison for murder. Anyone that
> thinks that the Mr. O competition is just about bodybuilding is fooling
> themselves. The Weiders and their new owners run that tighter than the
> Miss
> America contest.
>

I think you have a point. There is a lot to bodybuilding that is subjective,
like beauty contests and figure skating, that leaves a lot of room for
promoting a 'favorite' or judges on the take.
jb

On Aug 16, 10:31 pm, "Al Bino" <albinogar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Prisoner at War" <> Why aren't you sticking up for the satanists, too??
>
>
>
> I think there is no doubt that there are a lot of satanists, this is a
> partial list:
>
> Craig Titus and his bisexual wife
> Arnold
> Mike Mentzer
> Joe Weider
> Ben Weider
> all lesbian bodybuilding women (95%)
> Eugene Sandow
> Charles Atlas
> Sergio Oliva



LOL

Actually, a bisexual wife sounds hot.

I don't know how Muscle Mission claims that pro bodybuilding is full
of satanic worshippers...the site doesn't actually say anything...what
makes someone satanic??? Are there a lot of Wiccans in pro
bodybuilding or something? Them jesus freaks are so cute....

On Aug 16, 10:00 pm, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's neither. It's y-o-u.
>
> Where was the joke in what you wrote? I must've missed that. And I'd
> like to think I've got at least a half-assed somethingsomething for
> humor. (

Like Lenny Bruce said of the FCC, "if they don't get it, fuck 'em."

> I'm almost certain there was something in there about Greek god, too.
> I may be mistaken, of course.

"Greco-Roman wrestler"...don't forget the "statue" and "art museum"
bit, too....

> Holy crap. You need to stop talking.

Maybe you just need to stop reading?

> Fighting best! Yeesh. As an infantryman, did you ever actually fight?

I always said I'm thankful I didn't have to -- but you know that
that's just an expression, "fighting best," right? Or are you a kid
and take everything literally?

> I was in the Navy for five years and the only fight I had was outside
> a Burger King. Or maybe it was a Hardee's.

Ah, the Wavy! How can you tell if there's a sailor in the room?

He'll tell you.

> Freides challenged you? I thought he simply asked you to put up or
> shut up.

Um..."put up or shut up" is a "challenge"...did you serve on a tug
boat or something??

>You put up. Good for you. Kudos in fact. I said as much in a
> previous post. But you've done nothing but dig a hole for yourself
> otherwise.

"Dig a hole"??

While I admire your sense of chivalry and All-American fair play,
excuse me that I don't anoint you my higher conscience where my turns
of thought here are concerned.

> Get this... what if you fail with six plates and the only person
> around to get the bar off your bigoted "just joking" neck is a
> homosexual or Joe Weider?

That's why I've been advising people to use the power rack!

But I'm already pressing 295 five reps for three sets...not likely to
fail at 315 for a one-rep max...I'm already focused on 405 now....

Anyway, Curt, that question was so lame, that was the whole basis for
a "Jeffersons" episode, where George saved some KKK leader's life and
that guy has an epiphany of racial harmony...don't tell me you really
operate on that intellectual level!

> --
> Curt

"Jim Boyer" <james.boyer@motorola.com> wrote in message
news:fa1li7$21n$1@newshost.mot.com...
>
> "AL" <alfredogarcia@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:s3Rwi.3120$wN3.1041@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>> Considering that it is openly admitted that wrestling is scripted and the
>> winners are mapped out ahead of time for the entire wrestling season,
>> what
>> are the odds that bodybuilding is just as fake and scripted??
>>
>> I personally saw the Pumping Iron movie as being just about Arnold. Even
>> though the movie was a lot of fun and it introduced some great
>> bodybuilders
>> to the world, I don't think anyone who sees that movie can feel any
>> suspense
>> about who is going to win. When Joe Weider gets interviewed, it is
>> obvious
>> that Arnold is his man, and Weider ran the contest so what are the odds
>> anyone else would win?
>>
>> Considering that the Mr. Olympia contest was created just to promote the
>> IFBB, any belief that the contest is actually honest is misplaced. The
>> IFBB
>> has never had any scandal relating to any of its champions, and when
>> Muscle
>> Media and other magazines started talking openly about steroid use, the
>> IFBB
>> responded by making Ronnie Coleman, a Texas police officer, as their
>> champion for eight years.
>>
>> Only a few years ago Craig Titus was a top competitor. Just like Lou
>> Ferrigno and other guys that Joe Weider felt had personality problems,
>> Titus
>> would never win the Mr. O. Now he is in prison for murder. Anyone that
>> thinks that the Mr. O competition is just about bodybuilding is fooling
>> themselves. The Weiders and their new owners run that tighter than the
>> Miss
>> America contest.
>>
>
> I think you have a point. There is a lot to bodybuilding that is
> subjective, like beauty contests and figure skating, that leaves a lot of
> room for promoting a 'favorite' or judges on the take.
> jb
>

This "Al" troll has no point. There is nothing scripted about bodybuilding
shows. Joe Weider has had no idea who 99% of the competitors have been for
over 20 years. There are no grand conspiracies etc. Craig Titus NEVER was in
contention to do anything as a pro bodybuilder. He was a guy who never would
have made an Olympia top 10. I suggest you kill file guys like this "Al"
dolt. They don't even work out, yet talk a lot of shit here. I have been on
a # of photos shoots with Joe Weider and been in his office. He couldn't fix
a show at gunpoint. BTW, there isn't enough $ in bodybuilding for anyone to
be on the "take" anyway.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46c4b344$0$4106$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1187291357.908729.126260@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
>> On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .....
>
>>> Regardless, your seeming pejorative use of "gays and Jews" is
>>> unappreciated at best.
>>
>> Not my fault there are so many gays and Jews in bodybuilding!
>>
>>> Give it a rest? No, that would be reasonable.
>>
>> Give what a rest? I'm just fascinated that there are so many gays,
>> Jews, and satanic worshippers in pro bodybuilding!!
>
> If you wonder why you piss off people, dumbass bigoted comments like this
> are a good reason. And if you're going to make them, at least have enough
> sack to stand by them rather than backpeddle.
>
> And while we're at it, your bragging about your body like you're hot shit
> is pathetic and offputting, too. Your pics show some development but are
> not real impressive, and definitely don't warrant your bragging. You look
> stocky and a bit overweight. If you have some good before/after pics to
> contrast and show your transformation, maybe those will impress but your
> pics alone certainly don't.
>

Did fat boy actually show some photos? I would love see what this bozo looks
like. This PAW dolt is nothing but a bigoted little troll.

--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
news:yPuxi.62206$vS1.43314@newsfe16.phx...
> Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:46c4b344$0$4106$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1187291357.908729.126260@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
>>> On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> .....
>>
>>>> Regardless, your seeming pejorative use of "gays and Jews" is
>>>> unappreciated at best.
>>>
>>> Not my fault there are so many gays and Jews in bodybuilding!
>>>
>>>> Give it a rest? No, that would be reasonable.
>>>
>>> Give what a rest? I'm just fascinated that there are so many gays,
>>> Jews, and satanic worshippers in pro bodybuilding!!
>>
>> If you wonder why you piss off people, dumbass bigoted comments like this
>> are a good reason. And if you're going to make them, at least have enough
>> sack to stand by them rather than backpeddle.
>>
>> And while we're at it, your bragging about your body like you're hot shit
>> is pathetic and offputting, too. Your pics show some development but are
>> not real impressive, and definitely don't warrant your bragging. You look
>> stocky and a bit overweight. If you have some good before/after pics to
>> contrast and show your transformation, maybe those will impress but your
>> pics alone certainly don't.
>>
>
> Did fat boy actually show some photos? I would love see what this bozo
> looks like. This PAW dolt is nothing but a bigoted little troll.
>

I was wondering, Robert, are you normally a happy person or are you easily
annoyed by people in your life? (For the record,, I work out regularly and
use my real name which is "David")

"Hard Bop Drums" <I have been on a # of photos shoots with Joe Weider and
been in his office. He couldn't fix a show at gunpoint. BTW, there isn't
enough $ in bodybuilding for anyone to be on the "take" anyway.
>

A) Joe and his brother have single-handedly controlled bodybuilding for over
50 years and they have put the AAU, and several other bodybuilding
federations out of business. So for you to imply that Joe Weider is some
kind of bumbling idiot just proves that in your case, steroids cause brain
damage.

B) There are millions of dollars in bodybuilding for the Weiders, who not
only sell magazines but also books, bodybuilding courses, vitamins and
supplements and weight-lifting equiptment. So for the Weiders (and the new
owners of the Weider empire), the Mr. Olympia contest is just like the Miss
America contest for Donald Trump and his casino business. The Weiders have
done a much better job of keeping the winners from any scandals, but in part
that is because there have only been four Mr. O winners since 1984. The Miss
America on the other hand has to crown a new winner every year.

C) If you think there is no money in bodybuilding, then ask yourself why
Arnold has been promoting The Arnold Classic for over twenty years? Arnold
will be the first to admit that he does not do anything just for "good
times." If he was not turning a profit off of bodybuilding he would have
turned his back on the promotions a long time ago.

"Hard Bop Drums" wrote:
> "Jim Boyer" wrote
> > "AL" wrote
> >> Considering that it is openly admitted that wrestling is scripted and the
> >> winners are mapped out ahead of time for the entire wrestling season,
> >> what are the odds that bodybuilding is just as fake and scripted??

Again, anything's possible however the distinction remains that
wrestling has the visible actions of what each performer is doing
while bodybuilding has the visible appearance of their actual physical
form. You can script a pratfall but it's difficult to script four-
percent bodyfat.

[...]

> > I think you have a point. There is a lot to bodybuilding that is
> > subjective, like beauty contests and figure skating, that leaves
> > a lot of room for promoting a 'favorite' or judges on the take.
> > jb

True.

> This "Al" troll has no point.

The OP simply asked a question.

> There is nothing scripted about bodybuilding shows.

Depends on what you consider scripting. Certainly there's a procedure.
Prejudging, call outs, evening show. There's a script in that respect.
It's not just men and women running around in their underpants.

> Joe Weider has had no idea

How about Ben Weider? Did he have an idea?

> who 99% of the competitors have been for over 20 years.

And what is this, Sh!t on Joe Weider month?

> There are no grand conspiracies etc.

The 1980 Mr. Olympia. The 1981 Mr. Olympia. If not conspiracies then
at least heavily disputed decisions.

Arnold with six weeks training? Franco with one leg and a bitch tit?
God bless 'em both, but I smell a conspiiiiiiracy! (And ever wonder
who benefits from the 300 MILLION U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY
in Iraq?)

> Craig Titus NEVER was in contention to do anything as
> a pro bodybuilder. He was a guy who never would have
> made an Olympia top 10.

Titus is a POS, but your comment is ridiculous. He placed 11th at the
2002 O. Fifth at that year's NOC. And was a top ten finisher at the
Arnold. What makes you, Mr. Podunk, think he couldn't have cracked the
top ten at the O, too?

Psst, can you say 1996 NPC USA Championships, 1st Heavyweight and
Overall? Regardless, I wonder what you would do if you found yourself
in the same situation as Ryan and Titus? Would you call 911 or flee?

> I suggest you kill file guys like

Yeah, kill files save you a lot of stress, I suspect.

> I have been on a # of photos shoots with Joe Weider

Who? Oh, you mean the guy who "has had no idea who 99% of the
competitors have been for over 20 years"? That Joe Weider?

> and been in his office.

Did you help him find his desk? Because, hey, if he doesn't have a
clue as to who the IFBB competitors are, well, he probably can find
his ass with both hands and a map.

Ever hear of Garrett Downing, 'bert? Apparently he's been in Joe's
office, too. However he's been just a tiny bit more respectful of the
erstwhile Master Blaster, stating, "I am proud to wear a personal
badge of honor in that I was the last pro personally signed by Joe
Weider. Joe is a man who clearly loves bodybuilding and the athletes
and he created the industry/sport from which many have benefited. The
times I met with him in his office were memorable."

Gee, Downing must be part of that one percent Joe Weider is aware of.

> He couldn't fix a show at gunpoint.

And Ben?

> BTW, there isn't enough $ in bodybuilding for anyone to
> be on the "take" anyway.

Any person can be bribed in some way, but does that way necessarily
have to be $?

--
Curt

David wrote:
[...]

> I was wondering, Robert, are you normally a happy person or are you easily
> annoyed by people in your life? (For the record,, I work out regularly and
> use my real name which is "David")

Pish posh, David. I suspect you're just another clown who's been kill
filed.

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187483356.451029.9130@i13g2000prf.googlegrou ps.com...
> David wrote:
> [...]
>
>> I was wondering, Robert, are you normally a happy person or are you
>> easily
>> annoyed by people in your life? (For the record,, I work out regularly
>> and
>> use my real name which is "David")
>
> Pish posh, David. I suspect you're just another clown who's been kill
> filed.
>

Pish posh indeed/ Why would I be killfiled? I use my real name.


> --
> Curt
>

David wrote:
[...]

> Pish posh indeed/ Why would I be killfiled?
> I use my real name.

Your real name has nothing to do with it. That's simply a hat 'bert
likes to hang his hat on, occasionally.

--
Curt

"Curt" <You can script a pratfall but it's difficult to script four-percent
bodyfat.
>
>

Except that when you have ten+ guys with 4% bodyfat competing every year
then it seems very strange that the same steroid asshole can win eight years
in a row. Not to mention that back when Dorian Yates was the Mr. O, he one
with a torn biceps on one year and a torn quad on another year. How can a
guy with half a biceps win the Mr. O unless the results were determined by
Joe Weider regardless of the actual physical condition of the participants??

Al Bino wrote:
> "Curt" <You can script a pratfall but it's difficult to script four-percent
> bodyfat.
>
> Except that when you have ten+ guys with 4% bodyfat competing every year
> then it seems very strange that the same steroid asshole can win eight years

Why would you call Coleman an asshole? I've heard Gustavo called an
idiot in more than one interview, but not Coleman. Source? Or, you
know, where'd you hear that? What gives you that impression or are you
just using that in general terms? Synonymous with guy but with a bit
more impact?

> in a row. Not to mention that back when Dorian Yates was the Mr. O, he one
> with a torn biceps on one year and a torn quad on another year. How can a
> guy with half a biceps win the Mr. O unless the results were determined by
> Joe Weider regardless of the actual physical condition of the participants??

You don't have to show both biceps except during the prejudging when
the call for front double biceps. From the angle of your arms, I'm not
sure a torn bicep would even be noticeable from the back. And, hey,
biceps schmiceps! Yates was about back poses and lat spreads. I
suspect Yates emphasized his strong points and avoided screaming,
"Hey, oy, lookit the torn biceps!" No.

Toney Freeman has a torn pec, but it's invisible given certain poses.
Plus, look at who Yates beat:

In '97 he beat Nasser and Shawn Ray. And in '96 he beat Shawn again
and Kevin Levrone. Shawn was a spoiler for Levrone in both '96 and
'97. And by the time Yates was injured he already had the Legend
Factor working for him. Regardless of that fact or his injuries, Yates
was simply incredible.

I mean, seriously, direct me to the pic where Yates looks weak:

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates.html

Good luck.

--
Curt

"Curt" <> I mean,