I had a trainer session. Please help!

I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
schedule:

Monday: chest/shoulder
Tuesday: Legs/abs
Thursday: Biceps/Triceps
Friday: Back/abs

Some of her suggestions:
1)I could combine Friday and Thursday if I did not want to come to the
gym 4 days a week. The other 4 days of the week could be
cardio and 1 day off.

2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
and definition which is my goal)

"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170617790.040646.25910@v45g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
>I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
> recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
> schedule:
>
> Monday: chest/shoulder
> Tuesday: Legs/abs
> Thursday: Biceps/Triceps
> Friday: Back/abs
>
> Some of her suggestions:
> 1)I could combine Friday and Thursday if I did not want to come to the
> gym 4 days a week. The other 4 days of the week could be
> cardio and 1 day off.
>
> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
> and definition which is my goal)
>

Split sounds okay. If you're trying to build max 1rep strength you'll want
to rest longer than 30 sec between heavy, low rep sets.

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, BodyBuilder wrote:
> Monday: chest/shoulder
> Tuesday: Legs/abs
> Thursday: Biceps/Triceps
> Friday: Back/abs

I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
time.

This workout also doesn't yield an overall ideal recovery time. Think about
primary synergists when working out a muscle group. When you work out your
chest you are also substantially using your triceps. When you work out
your upper chest you are substantially using your anterior deltoids. I
would combine the exercises that use common muscles in synergy and do them
on the same day. That way you give them an ideal amount of time to rest.
Here is a sample:

Day 1: Chest, Upper Chest, Anterior Delts, Triceps.
Day 2: Lateral/Rear delts, lats, biceps, brachialis, traps, g-back.
Day 3: Quads, Gluts, Calves
Day 4: Abs, Obliques, Hamstrings, Hip Flexion

The intervals and frequencies at which you do these exercises would be
highly subjective and dependent on intensity. You would also want to
alternate the order in which you do the exercises on an individual day.

If you wanted to do things like neck extension/flexion, brachioradialis,
hip adduction/abduction, or other less popular muscles you could insert
them on days containing exercises with which they share similar
synergists. See exrx.net for a list of synergists involved in specific
exercises.

--Sir Jackery

> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
> and definition which is my goal)

I couldnt understand what your goal is. Are you going for strength,
mass, or definition? You're gonna have very different routines, rest
time, etc etc depending on what you're trying to achieve.

On 4 Feb 2007 12:51:45 -0800, "darrieta87@gmail.com" <darrieta87@gmail.com>
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>
>> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
>> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
>> and definition which is my goal)
>
>I couldnt understand what your goal is. Are you going for strength,
>mass, or definition? You're gonna have very different routines, rest
>time, etc etc depending on what you're trying to achieve.
>
>
Definition? Definition is all about dieting, not training routines.

On 4 Feb, 19:36, "BodyBuilder" <mfar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
> recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
> schedule:
>
> Monday: chest/shoulder
> Tuesday: Legs/abs
> Thursday: Biceps/Triceps
> Friday: Back/abs

when u work your back u also work ur bics and here the bics workout is
followed straightaway by the back workout... no enuf time for recovery
of bics..sir jacky suggested routine seems to be the one to follow...
best of luck..
zeus

On Feb 4, 1:08 pm, John Hanson <jhan...@northernlinks.com> wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2007 12:51:45 -0800, "darriet...@gmail.com" <darriet...@gmail.com>
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>
>
> >> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> >> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
> >> and definition which is my goal)
>
> >I couldnt understand what your goal is. Are you going for strength,
> >mass, or definition? You're gonna have very different routines, rest
> >time, etc etc depending on what you're trying to achieve.
>
> Definition? Definition is all about dieting, not training routines.

That is true, but i dont know if he knows that, so i needed to ask.

"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170617790.040646.25910@v45g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
>I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
> recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
> schedule:
>
> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
> and definition which is my goal)

It's the other way around. In general, rest longer between sets for
strength (3 - 5 minutes) and shorter (~ 30 sec) for hypertrophy (size).

Ellis

On Feb 5, 6:36 am, "BodyBuilder" <mfar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
> recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
> schedule:
>
> Monday: chest/shoulder
> Tuesday: Legs/abs
> Thursday: Biceps/Triceps
> Friday: Back/abs
>
> Some of her suggestions:
> 1)I could combine Friday and Thursday if I did not want to come to the
> gym 4 days a week. The other 4 days of the week could be
> cardio and 1 day off.
>
> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
> and definition which is my goal)


Id get a new trainer. OR you have given him/her mixed messages about
what you want.
cos no trainer could get it THAT wrong. Sir Jackery hit it all on the
head.
The workout you have been prescribed is VERY simplistic and not very
functional for any PROPER goals.
Its the kind you give a newbie just to keep em interested in the gym
for a few weeks. to see that they keep interested in coming back. THEN
the trainer will prob give you a PROPER routine. So thats why i think
they may have got a mixed message from you. At least im hoping thats
the case. Cos the info they gave you is just BAD.

On Feb 4, 2:11 pm, "Ellis" <some...@somewhere.not> wrote:
> "BodyBuilder" <mfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1170617790.040646.25910@v45g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
>
> >I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
> > recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
> > schedule:
>
> > 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> > to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
> > and definition which is my goal)
>
> It's the other way around. In general, rest longer between sets for
> strength (3 - 5 minutes) and shorter (~ 30 sec) for hypertrophy (size).
>
> Ellis

30 seconds between sets? No. If you're going for size, your rest
between sets is gonna have to be between 1 and 2 minutes.

"Diego" <darrieta87@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170651276.724189.215310@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 4, 2:11 pm, "Ellis" <some...@somewhere.not> wrote:
>> "BodyBuilder" <mfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1170617790.040646.25910@v45g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> >I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She made some
>> > recommendations and I would like to ask you folks about them. The
>> > schedule:
>>
>> > 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
>> > to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
>> > and definition which is my goal)
>>
>> It's the other way around. In general, rest longer between sets for
>> strength (3 - 5 minutes) and shorter (~ 30 sec) for hypertrophy (size).
>>
>> Ellis
>
> 30 seconds between sets? No. If you're going for size, your rest
> between sets is gonna have to be between 1 and 2 minutes.

30 seconds is a bit short, now that I think about it. The point is, it's
longer for strength and shorter for hypertrophy.

A minute would seem about right for size but there are no hard and fast
rules between individuals.

Ellis
>

Dnia 2007-02-04 DrJ napisa³(a):
>> Some of her suggestions:
>> 1)I could combine Friday and Thursday if I did not want to come to the
>> gym 4 days a week. The other 4 days of the week could be
>> cardio and 1 day off.
>>
>> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
>> to build maximum strength (not necessarily muscle
>> and definition which is my goal)
>
>
> Id get a new trainer. OR you have given him/her mixed messages about
> what you want. cos no trainer could get it THAT wrong.

I don't think that what s/he prescribed is THAT wrong. Plenty of
people would do it differently, but there's no telling who'd get better
results.

> Sir Jackery hit it all on the head.

I didn't like his program. It works for many people, sure, but other
approached do too. I, for example, prefer to train a muscle group
twice a week and I never made a lot of progress on once a week programs.

> The workout you have been prescribed is VERY simplistic and not very
> functional for any PROPER goals.

Many people have various goals and it's possible that a program like
that may work for reaching some compromise between them. There is
nothing IMPROPER about wanting to be slimmer, more muscular and better
conditioned.

> Its the kind you give a newbie just to keep em interested in the gym
> for a few weeks. to see that they keep interested in coming back. THEN
> the trainer will prob give you a PROPER routine. So thats why i think
> they may have got a mixed message from you. At least im hoping thats
> the case. Cos the info they gave you is just BAD.

I always find it funny, that one of rare occasions when Internet
forumites reach consensus is when it comes to critiquing PTs. I don't
think there's anything obviously wrong with the program an OP received.
I'd prefer less isolation and more frequency, Sir Jackery would prefer
more specialisation with the same frequency, most people would increase
rest intervals to at least a minute (here I think that OP somehow
confused what PT told him) for strength, but for fat loss short rest
intervals definitely work, so it's just a case of picking somebody's
priorities right. One could make a lot of progress on a program like
that, no matter what you or me prefer to do.

--
Andrzej Rosa

Sir Jackey, thank you for your response.

> Day 1: Chest, Upper Chest, Anterior Delts, Triceps.
> Day 2: Lateral/Rear delts, lats, biceps, brachialis, traps, g-back.
> Day 3: Quads, Gluts, Calves
> Day 4: Abs, Obliques, Hamstrings, Hip Flexion

I have to squeeze my exercises in 3 days.
1)Can you tell me what are anterior delts, g-back, brachialis, quads,
gluts and obliques are?

2)If I squeeze them in 3 days, what would the ideal exercises be?

3)
Warm up:50% wt
Rep1: Maximum possible reps
Rep2: Increase weight 10 to 15% and maximum possible reps.
Would you agree?

4)I am concluding that rest period between reps as 1 minute for
maximum strength after reading the posts. Would you agree?

Thanks.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, BodyBuilder wrote:

>> Day 1: Chest, Upper Chest, Anterior Delts, Triceps.
>> Day 2: Lateral/Rear delts, lats, biceps, brachialis, traps, g-back.
>> Day 3: Quads, Gluts, Calves
>> Day 4: Abs, Obliques, Hamstrings, Hip Flexion


> 1)Can you tell me what are anterior delts, g-back, brachialis, quads,
> gluts and obliques are?
Take a look at exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html for the information on the
muscles, their full names are:
Anterior Deltoids
Brachialis
Quadraceps
Obliques
Gluteus Maximus
and g-back is just short for "General Back" Or thoracic/lumber extension
which targets muscles such as the erector spinae and quadratus lumbaorum.


> 2)If I squeeze them in 3 days, what would the ideal exercises be?
Hmmm.... You might be able to get away with combining day 3 and 4. Or you
could do all lower body on day 3 and put the abs/obliques/hips on day 2.

> 3)
> Warm up:50% wt
> Rep1: Maximum possible reps
> Rep2: Increase weight 10 to 15% and maximum possible reps.
> Would you agree?
Sounds good to me. Here's how I do it (for each major muscle I target)
Warm-up about 75% weight Exercise 1
5-8 rep set 1 Exercise 1
5-8 rep set 2 Exercise 1
5-8 rep set 3 Exercise 2
5-8 rep set 4 Exercise 2
8-15 rep set 5 Exercise 2
So for example, triceps: I would do two separate exercise 3 sets of each,
like skull crushers and then dips or cable pushdowns. I usually do the
more isolated exercise first.

There is not a signification reason why I do it like this, and I change
formats very frequently. This just "feels right" at the moment for me.

> 4)I am concluding that rest period between reps as 1 minute for
> maximum strength after reading the posts. Would you agree?
I assume you mean rest between sets. I would go with 2-4 minutes for
strength. I believe that if you want to build larger primary muscles you
rest less and if you want to build better rep strength you would rest for
a minute or so. I usually rest 2-3 min towards the beginning and 3-4 min
towards the end (I train for strength). Someone please correct me here if
I'm wrong.


Everyone is unique and what may work for most may not work for you. Be
sure to feel out your exercises and make sure you are not doing anything
that feels painful in the wrong way. If an exercise feels out of place,
try changing it to a different day. I do my shrugs on torso-push days,
which is unorthodox, but it works for me.

Hope the info helps (-:

--Sir Jackery

In news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0702052018460.6606@pc30.cs.ucda vis.edu,
Sir Jackery <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> typed:
> On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, BodyBuilder wrote:
>
>>> Day 1: Chest, Upper Chest, Anterior Delts, Triceps.
>>> Day 2: Lateral/Rear delts, lats, biceps, brachialis, traps, g-back.
>>> Day 3: Quads, Gluts, Calves
>>> Day 4: Abs, Obliques, Hamstrings, Hip Flexion
>
>
>> 1)Can you tell me what are anterior delts, g-back, brachialis, quads,
>> gluts and obliques are?
> Take a look at exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html for the information on
> the muscles, their full names are:
> Anterior Deltoids
> Brachialis
> Quadraceps
> Obliques
> Gluteus Maximus
> and g-back

You made this up all on your own, didn't you?

> is just short for "General Back" Or thoracic/lumber
> extension which targets muscles such as the erector spinae and
> quadratus lumbaorum.
>
>> 2)If I squeeze them in 3 days, what would the ideal exercises be?
> Hmmm.... You might be able to get away with combining day 3 and 4. Or
> you could do all lower body on day 3 and put the abs/obliques/hips on
> day 2.
>> 3)
>> Warm up:50% wt
>> Rep1: Maximum possible reps
>> Rep2: Increase weight 10 to 15% and maximum possible reps.
>> Would you agree?
> Sounds good to me. Here's how I do it (for each major muscle I target)
> Warm-up about 75% weight Exercise 1
> 5-8 rep set 1 Exercise 1
> 5-8 rep set 2 Exercise 1
> 5-8 rep set 3 Exercise 2
> 5-8 rep set 4 Exercise 2
> 8-15 rep set 5 Exercise 2
> So for example, triceps: I would do two separate exercise 3 sets of
> each, like skull crushers and then dips or cable pushdowns. I usually
> do the more isolated exercise first.
>
> There is not a signification reason why I do it like this, and I
> change formats very frequently. This just "feels right" at the moment
> for me.
>> 4)I am concluding that rest period between reps as 1 minute for
>> maximum strength after reading the posts. Would you agree?
> I assume you mean rest between sets. I would go with 2-4 minutes for
> strength. I believe that if you want to build larger primary muscles
> you rest less and if you want to build better rep strength you would
> rest for a minute or so.

What is "rep strength"?

> I usually rest 2-3 min towards the beginning
> and 3-4 min towards the end (I train for strength). Someone please
> correct me here if I'm wrong.
>
>
> Everyone is unique and what may work for most may not work for you. Be
> sure to feel out your exercises and make sure you are not doing
> anything that feels painful in the wrong way. If an exercise feels
> out of place, try changing it to a different day. I do my shrugs on
> torso-push days, which is unorthodox, but it works for me.
>
> Hope the info helps (-:
>
> --Sir Jackery



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

"Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:

> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
> time.

Yes there is.

Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox. 80-85%
1RM?
Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care either.

I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.

I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i have
strong abs. And i dont.

--
Pete

"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> schreef:

>I had a session with a trainer in my gym. She...

Excuse me ?!?!?!

You post as "BodyBuilder", yet you are taking advice from a double XX
chromosom,e creature?

Next time, just ask us.

> Monday: chest/shoulder

Which include triceps.

> Tuesday: Legs/abs

Okay, you are recovered.

> Thursday: Biceps/Triceps
> Friday: Back/abs

No, thats fucked up. You are frying the bis the day before back.

Try the other way around, or even better, work back, rest a day, work bis.

Another option is to throw in a few heavy sets of BB curls after you
finished back. You worked them anyway, right?

> Some of her suggestions:
> 1)I could combine Friday and Thursday if I did not want to come to the
> gym 4 days a week. The other 4 days of the week could be
> cardio and 1 day off.

Back/bis/tris? Sure, why not.

> 2)Rest between reps and exercises should be about 30 seconds if I want
> to build maximum strength...

Come again?

Tell her she is insane. Mention my name and newsgroup if you have the desire
to do so.

For strength, rest 2-4 minutes. Some people will advice even longer then
that.

--
Pete

"Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:

> This workout also doesn't yield an overall ideal recovery time. Think
> about primary synergists when working out a muscle group. When you work
> out your chest you are also substantially using your triceps. When you
> work out your upper chest you are substantially using your anterior
> deltoids. I would combine the exercises that use common muscles in synergy
> and do them on the same day. That way you give them an ideal amount of
> time to rest. Here is a sample:

> Day 1: Chest, Upper Chest, Anterior Delts, Triceps.

Chest/upper chest/anterior delts !?!?!?

Do you really think the medials dont contract hard while doing overheads? Or
bench, inclines?

> Day 2: Lateral/Rear delts...

Man, this is so fucked up!

You are making a distinction between each head in the delts. That looks nice
on an anatomy chart, but not in the gym.

> lats, biceps, brachialis, traps, g-back.

You forgot the Rhomboids and Teres. Work them the day after lats.

> Day 3: Quads, Gluts, Calves
> Day 4: Abs, Obliques, Hamstrings, Hip Flexion

> The intervals and frequencies at which you do these exercises would be
> highly subjective and dependent on intensity. You would also want to
> alternate the order in which you do the exercises on an individual day.

Why?
(50 cents to Bully)

> If you wanted to do things like neck extension/flexion, brachioradialis,
> hip adduction/abduction, or other less popular muscles you could insert
> them on days containing exercises with which they share similar
> synergists. See exrx.net for a list of synergists involved in specific
> exercises.

Sorry man, but your advice sucks.

--
Pete

"Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:

>> 1)Can you tell me what are anterior delts, g-back, brachialis, quads,
>> gluts and obliques are?

> Take a look at exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html for the information on the
> muscles, their full names are:
> Anterior Deltoids
> Brachialis
> Quadraceps
> Obliques
> Gluteus Maximus
> and g-back is just short for "General Back"

Something wrong with using the term *Back* for "General Back"?

> Or thoracic/lumber extension which targets muscles such as the erector
> spinae and quadratus lumbaorum.

Is that "General Back" or lower back? Sound like lower back to me.

> I usually do the more isolated exercise first.

Like flyes before benches? Or extensions before squats?

> There is not a signification reason why I do it like this, and I change
> formats very frequently.

Why?

--
Pete

"Ellis" <someone@somewhere.not> schreef:

> It's the other way around. In general, rest longer between sets for
> strength (3 - 5 minutes) and shorter (~ 30 sec) for hypertrophy (size).

Yeah, and the 180 pounders in my gym keep telling me that. Over and over and
over again.

I need my time to socialize.

And i frequently asked the gym owner for a bigass Plasme screen. You know...
to watch MTV.

And a nice couch would be nice.
Recuperation between sets is underestimated by most bodybuilders.

--
Pete

"Ellis" <someone@somewhere.not> schreef:

>> 30 seconds between sets? No. If you're going for size, your rest
>> between sets is gonna have to be between 1 and 2 minutes.

> 30 seconds is a bit short, now that I think about it. The point is, it's
> longer for strength and shorter for hypertrophy.

Muscles grow because they have to contract hard. Very hard. To contract
harder the next time.

How can you accomplish hard contractions when the muscles are not recovered
from the previous set?

This whole Pump = Growth died a long time ago.

--
Pete

> What is "rep strength"?
Strength isolated to the muscular articulation used in the exercise.

--Jackery

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Pete wrote:

> "Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:
>
>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
>> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
>> time.
>
> Yes there is.
>
> Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox. 80-85%
> 1RM?
> Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care either.
>
> I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.
>
> I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i have
> strong abs. And i dont.

Cite sources please. Are you saying that muscles exercised in higher reps
need less recovery?


--Jackery

On Feb 6, 7:45 am, Sir Jackery <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Pete wrote:
> > "Sir Jackery" <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:
>
> >> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
> >> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
> >> time.
>
> > Yes there is.
>
> > Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox. 80-85%
> > 1RM?
> > Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care either.
>
> > I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.
>
> > I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i have
> > strong abs. And i dont.
>
> Cite sources please. Are you saying that muscles exercised in higher reps
> need less recovery?

No, he's saying it is not possible to work the abs as intensely as it
is other muscles.

In news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0702060738220.3531@pc30.cs.ucda vis.edu,
Sir Jackery <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> typed:
>> What is "rep strength"?
> Strength isolated to the muscular articulation used in the exercise.
>
> --Jackery

Ah, so you were talking bollocks.


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, throatslasher wrote:

> On Feb 6, 7:45 am, Sir Jackery <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Pete wrote:
>>> "Sir Jackery" <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:
>>
>>>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
>>>> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
>>>> time.
>>
>>> Yes there is.
>>
>>> Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox. 80-85%
>>> 1RM?
>>> Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care either.
>>
>>> I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.
>>
>>> I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i have
>>> strong abs. And i dont.
>>
>> Cite sources please. Are you saying that muscles exercised in higher reps
>> need less recovery?
>
> No, he's saying it is not possible to work the abs as intensely as it
> is other muscles.

I think it's pretty clear that this is in fact was he is saying:

>>>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
>>>> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
>>>> time.
>>
>>> Yes there is.



--Sir Jackery

On Feb 6, 10:45 am, Sir Jackery <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, throatslasher wrote:
> > On Feb 6, 7:45 am, Sir Jackery <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Pete wrote:
> >>> "Sir Jackery" <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:
>
> >>>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
> >>>> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
> >>>> time.
>
> >>> Yes there is.
>
> >>> Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox. 80-85%
> >>> 1RM?
> >>> Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care either.
>
> >>> I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.
>
> >>> I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i have
> >>> strong abs. And i dont.
>
> >> Cite sources please. Are you saying that muscles exercised in higher reps
> >> need less recovery?
>
> > No, he's saying it is not possible to work the abs as intensely as it
> > is other muscles.
>
> I think it's pretty clear that this is in fact was he is saying:
>
> >>>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I don't believe
> >>>> there is anything special about them that makes them require less recovery
> >>>> time.
>
> >>> Yes there is.

Uh huh... and the question is *what* is different. The difference is
not the muscles, it's the excercises.

Btw, if you think it is pretty clear what he was saying, then why did
you ask what he was saying?

>
> --Sir Jackery- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Feb 6, 3:55 am, "Pete" <phouts...@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Ellis" <some...@somewhere.not> schreef:
>
> >> 30 seconds between sets? No. If you're going for size, your rest
> >> between sets is gonna have to be between 1 and 2 minutes.
> > 30 seconds is a bit short, now that I think about it. The point is, it's
> > longer for strength and shorter for hypertrophy.
>
> Muscles grow because they have to contract hard. Very hard. To contract
> harder the next time.
>
> How can you accomplish hard contractions when the muscles are not recovered
> from the previous set?
>
> This whole Pump = Growth died a long time ago.

Why even perform a second set at all if the muscles contracted very
hard during the first?

>
> --
> Pete

In news:1170795693.228180.149330@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com,
throatslasher <implicit_differentiation@hotmail.com> typed:
> On Feb 6, 3:55 am, "Pete" <phouts...@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>> "Ellis" <some...@somewhere.not> schreef:
>>
>>>> 30 seconds between sets? No. If you're going for size, your rest
>>>> between sets is gonna have to be between 1 and 2 minutes.
>>> 30 seconds is a bit short, now that I think about it. The point
>>> is, it's longer for strength and shorter for hypertrophy.
>>
>> Muscles grow because they have to contract hard. Very hard. To
>> contract harder the next time.
>>
>> How can you accomplish hard contractions when the muscles are not
>> recovered from the previous set?
>>
>> This whole Pump = Growth died a long time ago.
>
> Why even perform a second set at all if the muscles contracted very
> hard during the first?

To get them to contract very hard all over again!

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

In news:1170795563.480348.172340@q2g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com,
throatslasher <implicit_differentiation@hotmail.com> typed:
> On Feb 6, 10:45 am, Sir Jackery <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, throatslasher wrote:
>>> On Feb 6, 7:45 am, Sir Jackery <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Pete wrote:
>>>>> "Sir Jackery" <roeh...@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:
>>
>>>>>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I
>>>>>> don't believe there is anything special about them that makes
>>>>>> them require less recovery time.
>>
>>>>> Yes there is.
>>
>>>>> Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with
>>>>> aprox. 80-85% 1RM?
>>>>> Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care
>>>>> either.
>>
>>>>> I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20
>>>>> reps.
>>
>>>>> I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym
>>>>> think i have strong abs. And i dont.
>>
>>>> Cite sources please. Are you saying that muscles exercised in
>>>> higher reps need less recovery?
>>
>>> No, he's saying it is not possible to work the abs as intensely as
>>> it is other muscles.
>>
>> I think it's pretty clear that this is in fact was he is saying:
>>
>>>>>> I would rest the abs the same amount as the other muscles. I
>>>>>> don't believe there is anything special about them that makes
>>>>>> them require less recovery time.
>>
>>>>> Yes there is.
>
> Uh huh... and the question is *what* is different. The difference is
> not the muscles, it's the excercises.
>
> Btw, if you think it is pretty clear what he was saying, then why did
> you ask what he was saying?
>

Possibly because as we've already established, Sir J talks an awful lot of
bollocks.

What Pete said was he does as many reps as he can using the highest weight /
resistance available.

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

In news:45c868fe$0$62666$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl,
Pete <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> typed:
> "Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:
>
>
>> The intervals and frequencies at which you do these exercises would
>> be highly subjective and dependent on intensity. You would also want
>> to alternate the order in which you do the exercises on an
>> individual day.
>
> Why?

I think I know the answer to that one. It's to confuse the muscles, right?

> (50 cents to Bully)

Save it; you can buy me a pint of froth/beer next time I'm in 'Dam.

>
>> If you wanted to do things like neck extension/flexion,
>> brachioradialis, hip adduction/abduction, or other less popular
>> muscles you could insert them on days containing exercises with
>> which they share similar synergists. See exrx.net for a list of
>> synergists involved in specific exercises.
>
> Sorry man, but your advice sucks.

Major suckage!

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

"throatslasher" <implicit_differentiation@hotmail.com> schreef:

>> > Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox.
>> > 80-85%
>> > 1RM?
>> > Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care
>> > either.

>> > I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.

>> > I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i
>> > have
>> > strong abs. And i dont.

>> Cite sources please. Are you saying that muscles exercised in higher reps
>> need less recovery?

> No, he's saying it is not possible to work the abs as intensely as it
> is other muscles.

No i didnt.

Its possible, but almost nobody uses 80-85% while doing abs. THATS what i am
saying.

--
Pete

"Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> schreef:

>> Or are you saying that you work your abs with 5-8 reps with aprox. 80-85%
>> 1RM?
>> Do you even know the 1RM for abs? I dont, and i really dont care either.

>> I just set the machine with max. weight and squeeze out 15-20 reps.

>> I will get back on this issue later, since a lot guys in my gym think i
>> have
>> strong abs. And i dont.

> Cite sources please.

No. I never do that.

> Are you saying that muscles exercised in higher reps need less recovery?

Yes.

--
Pete

"throatslasher" <implicit_differentiation@hotmail.com> schreef:

>> Muscles grow because they have to contract hard. Very hard. To contract
>> harder the next time.

>> How can you accomplish hard contractions when the muscles are not
>> recovered
>> from the previous set?

>> This whole Pump = Growth died a long time ago.

> Why even perform a second set at all if the muscles contracted very
> hard during the first?

More overload.

Why do 10 reps with X-weight when only 1 is enough ?!?!?!

Same weight.

If you recover from the previous set,. there will be *more* contractions,
*equally strong.*
When you go to fast, there will be more contractions also, but less intense.

--
Pete