If Excess Protein Turns into Fat...

"Omelet" <> Since you are using a fake name and I'm too lazy to trace the
headers,
> all I can say is "Butt the hell out shithead".
>

I guess you want to get it straight from the horse's mouth? Like you never
realized that Bob's diet plan is created around his drugs, not vice-versa?

BTW, what is your real name? Where do you live? What is your social security
number? I don't respect cowards that don't post their verifiable information
on the internet.

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-2994F0.09051101092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <pb0Ci.126$kI5.68@trnddc08>, "hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
> wrote:
>
>> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
>> news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0708311756340.30238@urchin.eart h.li...
>> > Omelet wrote:
>> >> Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>"DZ" <27245@2793811668.1331219963.15615.26290.4901>
>> >
>> Hey dudes, Tom, Om, Doug DZ etc,
>> That is some cool shit you guys are talking about here,
>> (in sci. chem). Carry on.
>
> For once the crossposted groups are all relevant. <g>
>
>> Let me ask you on the same general subject of
>> fat/calory conversion/burning and its consequences, etc.:
>>
>> What will Hydrogen gas do to the human metabolism
>> when H2 is inhaled on a daily and prolonged basis
>> (with N2 at a safe sub-explosive ration)?.
>> Will H2 react in the blood stream at all?
>> If yes,
>> will H2 change the pH of the plasma dangerously?,
>> will H2 induce other unpleasant or dangerous systemic
>> changes?
>> If no,
>> will H2 provide sufficient usable caloric energy that a
>> Hydrogen weight loss regimen (replacing solid food)
>> could be advocated?
>> hanson
>
> Dude...
> Don't go inhaling H2! It'll combine with O in the lungs and drown you!
>
> The whole idea is to lose body fat and keep on muscle weight.
> In order to do that, you have to maintain a positive N balance.
>
> The gas you want to be inhaling is N2O.
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
> Nicholson

Maybe he thinks inhaling Hydrogen will keep him light on his feet? I just
Helium to do that! ;-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

In article <bSpCi.62238$xZ2.52767@newsfe10.phx>,
"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmp_omelet-2994F0.09051101092007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <pb0Ci.126$kI5.68@trnddc08>, "hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
> >> news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0708311756340.30238@urchin.eart h.li...
> >> > Omelet wrote:
> >> >> Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>>"DZ" <27245@2793811668.1331219963.15615.26290.4901>
> >> >
> >> Hey dudes, Tom, Om, Doug DZ etc,
> >> That is some cool shit you guys are talking about here,
> >> (in sci. chem). Carry on.
> >
> > For once the crossposted groups are all relevant. <g>
> >
> >> Let me ask you on the same general subject of
> >> fat/calory conversion/burning and its consequences, etc.:
> >>
> >> What will Hydrogen gas do to the human metabolism
> >> when H2 is inhaled on a daily and prolonged basis
> >> (with N2 at a safe sub-explosive ration)?.
> >> Will H2 react in the blood stream at all?
> >> If yes,
> >> will H2 change the pH of the plasma dangerously?,
> >> will H2 induce other unpleasant or dangerous systemic
> >> changes?
> >> If no,
> >> will H2 provide sufficient usable caloric energy that a
> >> Hydrogen weight loss regimen (replacing solid food)
> >> could be advocated?
> >> hanson
> >
> > Dude...
> > Don't go inhaling H2! It'll combine with O in the lungs and drown you!
> >
> > The whole idea is to lose body fat and keep on muscle weight.
> > In order to do that, you have to maintain a positive N balance.
> >
> > The gas you want to be inhaling is N2O.
>
> Maybe he thinks inhaling Hydrogen will keep him light on his feet? I just
> Helium to do that! ;-)

Either that or he wants to make his farts interesting...

H2 is rather explosive iirc?

(Hindenburg)

http://www.vidicom-tv.com/tohiburg.htm

<shudder> Idiots for even attempting to use Hydrogen instead of Helium...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Aug 28, 1:21 am, number6 <snumb...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 27, 10:00 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
>
> > > Um, uh.
>
> > > Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.
>
> > I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
> > glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!
>
> No that is not correct ... the body cannot convert proteins to stored
> fat ... In fact, it cannot store ingested fat ... The body can only
> convert and store excess carbohydrates as fat ... not even alcohol ...

fitness.........

On Aug 30, 12:35 am, DZ <28...@2411014868.59525710.23191.21502.245>
wrote:
> Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> > DZ wrote:
> >> So, if rats drink plenty of vodka but otherwise starved, a small
> >> amount of fat can turn into carbs -http://pmid.us/8706872
>
> >> This simply HAD to come from Russian scientists!
>
> > I had the same thought when i saw those papers!
>
> Russian scientists studying the glyoxylate shunt -http://soldadoo.mylivepage.ru/image/61/455_yoga1.jpg
> (I'm the guy with the larger biceps)

what to say?

On Aug 28, 5:04 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
> Corpulent "Bill Penrose" <penr...@iit.edu> wrote in messagenews:1188245924.164538.188970@e9g2000prf.go oglegroups.com...>> > The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
> >> > nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.
>
> > Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Oh! Thanks...and I guess the body can't just grab some floating
> >> nitrogen and add it to fat and convert that fat into protein, eh....
>
> Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
> > Naw, you have to be a pea or another legume to do that (and the
> > process is actually carried out by nitrogen-fixing bacteria in the
> > root nodules). For most metabolic purposes, nitrogen is an inert gas.
>
> [hanson]
> ... ahahahaha... ok then, since there is plenty of N2 in then blood
> stream, let's dream about the development of a "supplement"
> or pill that contains GE nitrogen fixing bacteria, appropriate
> enzymes and the required trace minerals (V & Mo, IIRC), and
> have them bugs manufacture proteins in the stomach or upper
> gut so that we can thrive on daisies and cuttings from our lawns....
> ahahahaha... ahahanson

emmmm....

On Aug 26, 11:44 am, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
> Um, uh.
>
> Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.
>
> Sugar is not the only form of energy for the body. Ketones are a big one,
> if you don't guzzle carbs. Alcohol, I think, can too.
>
> The body does not need to use stored fats, if the diet has too many
> calories.
>
> There are entire books saying that each kind of fat is the best fat, and all
> the books contradict each other. Most agree that trans fats are bad.
> Personally, I like saturated fats as found in Coconuts, and I suspect there
> is merit to the form of Omega 6 called CLA. Without dietary fat, the body
> makes its own fats. I have wondered if dietary fat is healthier than the
> fat the body can make.
>
> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:1188091526.151310.26990@k79g2000hse.go oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> > What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> > protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
> > assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> > only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
>
> > And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> > are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> > their daily diet??- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

somethin' new

On Aug 26, 3:30 pm, Omelet <omp_ome...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <1188100597.168811.36...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups. com>,
> Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
>
> > The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
> > supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.
>
> <lol>
>
> Good joke...
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

hmmm.....

On Aug 26, 9:25 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
>
> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> their daily diet??

emmm.........

In article <1188726774.400595.51100@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.c om>,
nana_hadi <dianahadi86@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 9:25 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> > What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> > protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
> > assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> > only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
> >
> > And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> > are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> > their daily diet??
>
> emmm.........

Wow! That was so enlightening!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Senator Larry Gaye" <larrygraig@curb.com> wrote in message
news:_knCi.77596$jH3.33964@bignews6.bellsouth.net. ..
> "Omelet" <> Since you are using a fake name and I'm too lazy to trace the
> headers,
>> all I can say is "Butt the hell out shithead".
>>
>
> I guess you want to get it straight from the horse's mouth? Like you never
> realized that Bob's diet plan is created around his drugs, not vice-versa?
>
> BTW, what is your real name? Where do you live? What is your social
> security
> number? I don't respect cowards that don't post their verifiable
> information
> on the internet.
>
>

I just love how these anonymous cowards love to lie their asses off. I
suggest that you post your real name or shut the fuck up. It is painfully
obvious that you are a dolt who has zero knowledge of the topics here, so
you have to revert to libel and innuendo to get past. From the lack of style
and the lies, it looks like this is that ATP cunt. Why don't you spend more
time eating well or training instead of stalking people? It's not my fault
that you're a fat ass. Butch up a bit and post your real name. Pussy.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-638791.12505501092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <iW%Bi.132403$kK1.82679@newsfe14.phx>,
> "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>
>> Carb loading does not work in bodybuilding nor in endurance events. That
>> was
>> proven a long time ago. Many bodybuilders still use it because they don't
>> know how to properly dehydrate themselves and stay full before a contest.
>> That's where Lasix, alcohol and other goodies come in! :-)
>>
>> --
>> Robert Schuh
>
> So you are advocating drugs in place of diet?
> If dietary changes will work, why risk poisoning yourself?
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
> Nicholson

Carb loading does not work. All the endurance athletes proved that years
ago. Many BBers still do it because they are stupid and just do what
everyone else tells them to. I would also LOVE to know where you see
anything about poison. You need only a small amount of IV Lasix and just a
shot or 2 of something like Vodka right before you go onstage. Every top
bodybuilder uses some type of diuretic pre contest. Have you ever been lean
enough to see if a change in water would make a visible difference?



-- --Robert Schuh


"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and the fair, modest,
submissive and conforming mentality, the mediocrity of desires attains moral
designations and honors" - Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

In article <blFCi.112517$dI1.75140@newsfe08.phx>,
"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmp_omelet-638791.12505501092007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <iW%Bi.132403$kK1.82679@newsfe14.phx>,
> > "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Carb loading does not work in bodybuilding nor in endurance events. That
> >> was
> >> proven a long time ago. Many bodybuilders still use it because they don't
> >> know how to properly dehydrate themselves and stay full before a contest.
> >> That's where Lasix, alcohol and other goodies come in! :-)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Schuh
> >
> > So you are advocating drugs in place of diet?
> > If dietary changes will work, why risk poisoning yourself?
> > --
> > Peace, Om
> >
> > Remove _ to validate e-mails.
> >
> > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
> > Nicholson
>
> Carb loading does not work. All the endurance athletes proved that years
> ago.

Endurance competition is not the same. At all. I never even mentioned it
for that.

> Many BBers still do it because they are stupid and just do what
> everyone else tells them to. I would also LOVE to know where you see
> anything about poison. You need only a small amount of IV Lasix and just a
> shot or 2 of something like Vodka right before you go onstage. Every top
> bodybuilder uses some type of diuretic pre contest. Have you ever been lean
> enough to see if a change in water would make a visible difference?
>
>
>
> -- --Robert Schuh


No Robert, but more than one body builder has died from an electrolyte
imbalance during contest prep or on stage. One has to wonder if risking
your life for a plastic trophy is really worth it all.

It's not like body builders get multi-million dollar contracts like
other professional athletes do.

BB'ing drug use is being pushed to seriously ridiculous limits.

But, that is a personal opinion. YMMV.

One good reason to prefer power lifting.



I'm not arguing with you as I do understand competition, but
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Hard Bop Drums" <From the lack of style and the lies, it looks like this is
that ATP cunt. Why don't you spend more time eating well or training instead
of stalking people? It's not my fault that you're a fat ass. Butch up a bit
and post your real name. Pussy.
>
>
Meet me at the public restroom by the park near your house. Tap your foot
three times and then reach your hand under the stall so that I will know it
is you.

I will tell you everything tonight. I have my passport and a copy of my
income taxes so that you can verify it is me. Just like you, I was a
competitive bodybuilder. I places third in the Mr. Meineke Transmissions
contest held at Le Fleur back in 1991.

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-B7DE6D.15542602092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <blFCi.112517$dI1.75140@newsfe08.phx>,
> "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsmp_omelet-638791.12505501092007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <iW%Bi.132403$kK1.82679@newsfe14.phx>,
>> > "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Carb loading does not work in bodybuilding nor in endurance events.
>> >> That
>> >> was
>> >> proven a long time ago. Many bodybuilders still use it because they
>> >> don't
>> >> know how to properly dehydrate themselves and stay full before a
>> >> contest.
>> >> That's where Lasix, alcohol and other goodies come in! :-)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Robert Schuh
>> >
>> > So you are advocating drugs in place of diet?
>> > If dietary changes will work, why risk poisoning yourself?
>> > --
>> > Peace, Om
>> >
>> > Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>> >
>> > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
>> > Nicholson
>>
>> Carb loading does not work. All the endurance athletes proved that years
>> ago.
>
> Endurance competition is not the same. At all. I never even mentioned it
> for that.
>
>> Many BBers still do it because they are stupid and just do what
>> everyone else tells them to. I would also LOVE to know where you see
>> anything about poison. You need only a small amount of IV Lasix and just
>> a
>> shot or 2 of something like Vodka right before you go onstage. Every top
>> bodybuilder uses some type of diuretic pre contest. Have you ever been
>> lean
>> enough to see if a change in water would make a visible difference?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- --Robert Schuh
>
>
> No Robert, but more than one body builder has died from an electrolyte
> imbalance during contest prep or on stage. One has to wonder if risking
> your life for a plastic trophy is really worth it all.


No fucking bodybuilders have died from any such thing. Why do you make up
pure unadulterated bullshit like that? Name ONE. Do you still claim that
carb loading works on bodybuilding? Seeing that you don't know anything
about nor been in shape yourself, then why makes such commentary?


>
> It's not like body builders get multi-million dollar contracts like
> other professional athletes do.


What does that have to do with the price of milk?

>
> BB'ing drug use is being pushed to seriously ridiculous limits.


Who cares? They are adults. As long as you are an adult, you should be able
to do whatever you please with your body.


>
> But, that is a personal opinion. YMMV.
>
> One good reason to prefer power lifting.
>
>
>
> I'm not arguing with you as I do understand competition, but
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack
> Nicholson


Yeah, there are no drugs on powerlifting. ;-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, spodosaurus wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, spodosaurus wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ron Peterson wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 26, 2:32 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Bill Penrose wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
>>>>>>> that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat,
>>>>>>> but not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in
>>>>>>> the diet, supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
>>>>>> pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
>>>>>> cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glucogenesis produces glucose from glycerol and proteins, not fatty
>>>>> acids. Glycerol is only a small part of triglycerides.
>>>>
>>>> No, that is incorrect. Gluconeogenesis pathway produces glucose from
>>>> pyruvate/oxaloacetate. Oxaloacetate can be taken right from the
>>>> citric acid cycle, regardless of its source molecule (in this
>>>> example, fatty acids).
>>>
>>> But you can't make oxaloacetate from fat! Yes, carbons from fat flow
>>> into the Krebs cycle, but to get them in, you need molecules of the
>>> intermediates there already to accept them; to make oxaloacetate, you
>>> need acetyl CoA and an existing molecule of oxaloacetate, so there's
>>> no *net* synthesis - the number of molecules of the intermediates
>>> stays constant, that's what makes it a cycle.
>>
>> No human exists in a vacuum (literally, we tend to explode then freeze).
>
> Actually, i believe that's a popular myth - you asphyxiate then freeze,
> no exploding involved:
>
> http://www.sff.net/people/Geoffrey.Landis/vacuum.html
>
>> your hypothetical point here is not pertinent to the reality of the
>> situation - a person switching from carbohydrates to a protein+fat
>> diet. Acetyl CoA comes from fatty acid oxidation. You get C/2
>> acetyl-CoA's from each fatty acid (C=number of carbons in the chain,
>> and this is for even number carbon chains). You originally said that
>> humans can burn sugar and fat, but that there must always be a
>> carbohydrate source.
>
> That wasn't me.
>
>> This is not correct, as topping up the intermediates can be done
>> readily through the protein consumed with the rest of the animal.
>
> Quite true. Sorry, i wasn't saying that you had to eat sugars to be able
> to metabolise fat; i was just pointing out that you can't make sugar
> from fat.
>
> tom
>

And I was off smokin' crack before I made a couple of my posts in this
thread, apparently, and missed a couple of major steps (the sort of
steps that make something work or not). I've begun fixing the problem of
my crack compulsion before usenet posting and my knowledge gaps in the
metabolic pathways under discussion.

Cheers,

Ari



--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

On Sat, 1 Sep 2007, Omelet wrote:

> In article <pb0Ci.126$kI5.68@trnddc08>, "hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
> wrote:
>
>> What will Hydrogen gas do to the human metabolism
>> when H2 is inhaled on a daily and prolonged basis
>> (with N2 at a safe sub-explosive ration)?.
>> Will H2 react in the blood stream at all?
>> If yes,
>> will H2 change the pH of the plasma dangerously?,
>> will H2 induce other unpleasant or dangerous systemic
>> changes?
>> If no,
>> will H2 provide sufficient usable caloric energy that a
>> Hydrogen weight loss regimen (replacing solid food)
>> could be advocated?
>
> Dude...
> Don't go inhaling H2! It'll combine with O in the lungs and drown you!
>
> The whole idea is to lose body fat and keep on muscle weight.
> In order to do that, you have to maintain a positive N balance.
>
> The gas you want to be inhaling is N2O.

No no no! You need reduced nitrogen to make protein - so he needs to
inhale NH3. Or, if he can get hold of some N2H4, that's even better!

tom

--
I don't know what the hell you should do. Try clicking on some shit
or somethin'.

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, DZ wrote:

> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>>> Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> What it comes down to is that one molecule of fat is made of one
>> molecule of glycerol bonded to three molecules of fatty acid.
>>
>>>> Two glycerols get bonded to one glucose.
>>
>> Dammit, that's what i just said, only a quarter the length. CURSE YOU,
>> FREYBURGER!
>
> I blame those damn foreigners for spreading the usage "bonded" in place
> of "bound" when referring to chemical bonds.

Heh. Good point. I usually pride myself on avoiding Americanisms and
pointless neologisms, but that one slipped right through my net.

It would be interesting to see if British chemists tend to use 'bonded'
rather than 'bound', and if so, when it started.

tom

--
I don't know what the hell you should do. Try clicking on some shit
or somethin'.

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:11:56 +0800, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:

>Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, spodosaurus wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, spodosaurus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ron Peterson wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 26, 2:32 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bill Penrose wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
>>>>>>>> that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat,
>>>>>>>> but not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in
>>>>>>>> the diet, supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
>>>>>>> pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
>>>>>>> cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glucogenesis produces glucose from glycerol and proteins, not fatty
>>>>>> acids. Glycerol is only a small part of triglycerides.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, that is incorrect. Gluconeogenesis pathway produces glucose from
>>>>> pyruvate/oxaloacetate. Oxaloacetate can be taken right from the
>>>>> citric acid cycle, regardless of its source molecule (in this
>>>>> example, fatty acids).
>>>>
>>>> But you can't make oxaloacetate from fat! Yes, carbons from fat flow
>>>> into the Krebs cycle, but to get them in, you need molecules of the
>>>> intermediates there already to accept them; to make oxaloacetate, you
>>>> need acetyl CoA and an existing molecule of oxaloacetate, so there's
>>>> no *net* synthesis - the number of molecules of the intermediates
>>>> stays constant, that's what makes it a cycle.
>>>
>>> No human exists in a vacuum (literally, we tend to explode then freeze).
>>
>> Actually, i believe that's a popular myth - you asphyxiate then freeze,
>> no exploding involved:
>>
>> http://www.sff.net/people/Geoffrey.Landis/vacuum.html
>>
>>> your hypothetical point here is not pertinent to the reality of the
>>> situation - a person switching from carbohydrates to a protein+fat
>>> diet. Acetyl CoA comes from fatty acid oxidation. You get C/2
>>> acetyl-CoA's from each fatty acid (C=number of carbons in the chain,
>>> and this is for even number carbon chains). You originally said that
>>> humans can burn sugar and fat, but that there must always be a
>>> carbohydrate source.
>>
>> That wasn't me.
>>
>>> This is not correct, as topping up the intermediates can be done
>>> readily through the protein consumed with the rest of the animal.
>>
>> Quite true. Sorry, i wasn't saying that you had to eat sugars to be able
>> to metabolise fat; i was just pointing out that you can't make sugar
>> from fat.
>>
>> tom
>>
>
>And I was off smokin' crack before I made a couple of my posts in this
>thread, apparently, and missed a couple of major steps (the sort of
>steps that make something work or not). I've begun fixing the problem of
>my crack compulsion before usenet posting and my knowledge gaps in the
>metabolic pathways under discussion.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ari

If you're smoking crack and have a weight-loss program, you're not buying very good crack.

In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709032153390.12361@urchin.earth.li >,
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Sep 2007, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article <pb0Ci.126$kI5.68@trnddc08>, "hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What will Hydrogen gas do to the human metabolism
> >> when H2 is inhaled on a daily and prolonged basis
> >> (with N2 at a safe sub-explosive ration)?.
> >> Will H2 react in the blood stream at all?
> >> If yes,
> >> will H2 change the pH of the plasma dangerously?,
> >> will H2 induce other unpleasant or dangerous systemic
> >> changes?
> >> If no,
> >> will H2 provide sufficient usable caloric energy that a
> >> Hydrogen weight loss regimen (replacing solid food)
> >> could be advocated?
> >
> > Dude...
> > Don't go inhaling H2! It'll combine with O in the lungs and drown you!
> >
> > The whole idea is to lose body fat and keep on muscle weight.
> > In order to do that, you have to maintain a positive N balance.
> >
> > The gas you want to be inhaling is N2O.
>
> No no no! You need reduce nitrogen to make protein - so he needs to
> inhale NH3. Or, if he can get hold of some N2H4, that's even better!

That second one should give him some "Energy". ;-)
NH4OH and HNO3 are also candidates, since he seems to be an H fan.

>
> tom
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....9b95f6a?hl=en&
>
The best defense for the damages that were caused by your
recommendations which you guys have posted, will perhaps
be that you suffer from "advanced cranial lipo dysplasia of the
1st class", aka stupifying excessive fat deposits in your brains.
>
.... The reader who tried your suggestion of N2O was promptly
scooped up by ATF/DEA for making and using a controlled
substance and possessing its explosive starter material.
.... The reader who went with your NH3 recommendation is
still in the Trauma Center in critical condition with pulmonary
edema. -- Poison Ctrl & Insurance investigators were called in.
.... The reader who followed your suggestion to "go better with
N2H4" is on the critical list with acute renal and hepatic failure.
The Health Department and DHS are investigating.
.... The poster who suggested "NH4OH and HNO3 are also
candidates" is being looked at by the DHS and FBI as a person
of interest for obvious reasons.
>
..... BTW, it didn't help your case much that another friend of
yours posted that he was "smokin' crack"...
>
Now you guys can have all the fun you want about and from
your latest record added to your rap-sheet with these bureaucrats,
you splendidly odious & obese OM'-lets... ahahaha... ahahaha...
Thanks for the laughs ... ahahaha... ahahahanson

"number6" <snumber6@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1188235305.400845.166430@50g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 27, 10:00 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
>>
>> > Um, uh.
>>
>> > Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.
>>
>> I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
>> glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!
>
> No that is not correct ... the body cannot convert proteins to stored
> fat ...

While the body can't convert proteins directly to fat, it can convert them
to carbohydrates, which can then be converted to stored fat.

> In fact, it cannot store ingested fat ...

I once saw some "expert" being interviewed and she claimed that by taking a
biopsy of one's bofy fat, they can tell what kinds of fat that person had
been eating. Of course, she could have been wrong. News shows tend to
interview the "experts" who give the most sensational views, without much
regard for accuracy. I believe that fat has to be converted to carbs and
then reconverted to fat.

> The body can only
> convert and store excess carbohydrates as fat ... not even alcohol ...

Are you sure? Think about it. Alcohol, protein, fat and carbs all have
calories, which means they can be burned by the body for energy. If they
can be burned by the body for energy, that means the energy they contain can
be stored as fat, doesn't it? If not, why not?

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:1188100046.192959.113050@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 25, 8:25 pm, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
>> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
>> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
>> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
>> only form of energy for the body is sugar....
>
> Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
> synthesize proteins.

I think that fat contains all the necessary elements with which to create
amino acids, however, I agree with you that the body can't do that. It
would be possible if we had cells which could do that, but we don't.
Fortunately, fat does eventually get converted to aminos, but it happens
outside the body of course.

"Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ksmdnUwJNvetKcPanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "number6" <snumber6@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1188235305.400845.166430@50g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
>> On Aug 27, 10:00 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Um, uh.
>>>
>>> > Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.
>>>
>>> I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
>>> glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!
>>
>> No that is not correct ... the body cannot convert proteins to stored
>> fat ...
>
> While the body can't convert proteins directly to fat, it can convert them
> to carbohydrates, which can then be converted to stored fat.
>
>> In fact, it cannot store ingested fat ...
>
> I once saw some "expert" being interviewed and she claimed that by taking
> a biopsy of one's bofy fat, they can tell what kinds of fat that person
> had been eating. Of course, she could have been wrong. News shows tend
> to interview the "experts" who give the most sensational views, without
> much regard for accuracy. I believe that fat has to be converted to carbs
> and then reconverted to fat.
>
>> The body can only
>> convert and store excess carbohydrates as fat ... not even alcohol ...
>
> Are you sure? Think about it. Alcohol, protein, fat and carbs all have
> calories, which means they can be burned by the body for energy. If they
> can be burned by the body for energy, that means the energy they contain
> can be stored as fat, doesn't it? If not, why not?
>

From memory, I seem to recall reading in Dr. Taller's 1961 "Calories Don't
Count" that pigs were experimentally fed Omega 6 oil resulting in palpably
soft fat tissue. I think the author hypothesized that softer fat tissue
might be easier to lose in a diet.

While the body can make its own fat, there is reason to believe that dietary
fat does get used to build or rebuild body tissues. This makes trans fats a
serious issue.

On Dec 11, 10:05 am, "Ernie Sty" <fake_em...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message

> > Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
> > synthesize proteins.

> I think that fat contains all the necessary elements with which to create
> amino acids, however, I agree with you that the body can't do that. It
> would be possible if we had cells which could do that, but we don't.
> Fortunately, fat does eventually get converted to aminos, but it happens
> outside the body of course.

What fatty acids contain nitrogen?

What amino acids don't contain nitrogen?

--
Ron

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:f09832ae-a370-40e1-90fc-80547afecd41@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 11, 10:05 am, "Ernie Sty" <fake_em...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
>
>> > Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
>> > synthesize proteins.
>
>> I think that fat contains all the necessary elements with which to create
>> amino acids, however, I agree with you that the body can't do that. It
>> would be possible if we had cells which could do that, but we don't.
>> Fortunately, fat does eventually get converted to aminos, but it happens
>> outside the body of course.
>
> What fatty acids contain nitrogen?
>
> What amino acids don't contain nitrogen?
>
> --
> Ron
>

I think old Ernie has discovered a new nitrogen rich fat. ;-) I am curious
as to how fat could convert to protein outside of the body too.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

On Dec 12, 12:50 pm, "Rob Schuh" <noone...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f09832ae-a370-40e1-90fc-80547afecd41@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 10:05 am, "Ernie Sty" <fake_em...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
>
> >> > Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
> >> > synthesize proteins.
>
> >> I think that fat contains all the necessary elements with which to create
> >> amino acids, however, I agree with you that the body can't do that. It
> >> would be possible if we had cells which could do that, but we don't.
> >> Fortunately, fat does eventually get converted to aminos, but it happens
> >> outside the body of course.
>
> > What fatty acids contain nitrogen?

> > What amino acids don't contain nitrogen?

> I think old Ernie has discovered a new nitrogen rich fat. ;-) I am curious
> as to how fat could convert to protein outside of the body too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_sickness says:
"Typically, a person who has a high body fat content is at greater
risk of altitude DCS. Due to poor blood supply, nitrogen is stored in
greater amounts in fat tissues. Although fat represents only 15
percent of a normal adult body, it stores over half of the total
amount of nitrogen (about 1 litre) normally dissolved in the body."

So is that fat biologically available?

--
Ron

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Ron Peterson wrote:

> On Dec 12, 12:50 pm, "Rob Schuh" <noone...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
>> news:f09832ae-a370-40e1-90fc-80547afecd41@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Dec 11, 10:05 am, "Ernie Sty" <fake_em...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>> Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
>>>>> synthesize proteins.
>>>>
>>>> I think that fat contains all the necessary elements with which to
>>>> create amino acids, however, I agree with you that the body can't do
>>>> that. It would be possible if we had cells which could do that, but
>>>> we don't. Fortunately, fat does eventually get converted to aminos,
>>>> but it happens outside the body of course.
>>>
>>> What fatty acids contain nitrogen?
>>>
>>> What amino acids don't contain nitrogen?
>>
>> I think old Ernie has discovered a new nitrogen rich fat. ;-) I am curious
>> as to how fat could convert to protein outside of the body too.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_sickness says:
> "Typically, a person who has a high body fat content is at greater
> risk of altitude DCS. Due to poor blood supply, nitrogen is stored in
> greater amounts in fat tissues. Although fat represents only 15
> percent of a normal adult body, it stores over half of the total
> amount of nitrogen (about 1 litre) normally dissolved in the body."
>
> So is that fat biologically available?

You mean that nitrogen, presumably.

The answer is no. Wrong chemical form.

tom

--
[of Mulholland Drive] Cancer is pretty ingenious too, but its best to
avoid. -- Tex

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:f09832ae-a370-40e1-90fc-80547afecd41@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 11, 10:05 am, "Ernie Sty" <fake_em...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
>
>> > Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
>> > synthesize proteins.
>
>> I think that fat contains all the necessary elements with which to create
>> amino acids, however, I agree with you that the body can't do that. It
>> would be possible if we had cells which could do that, but we don't.
>> Fortunately, fat does eventually get converted to aminos, but it happens
>> outside the body of course.
>
> What fatty acids contain nitrogen?

Are you kidding? Several hundred thousand of them! You should have been
fully aware of their existence, though the only placed they ever existed was
in my imagination.

> What amino acids don't contain nitrogen?
> Ron


In all seriousness, you're right of course, fats don't contain the necessary
elements to build aminos. I was mistaken.