If Excess Protein Turns into Fat...

Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
only form of energy for the body is sugar....)

And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
their daily diet??

Um, uh.

Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.

Sugar is not the only form of energy for the body. Ketones are a big one,
if you don't guzzle carbs. Alcohol, I think, can too.

The body does not need to use stored fats, if the diet has too many
calories.

There are entire books saying that each kind of fat is the best fat, and all
the books contradict each other. Most agree that trans fats are bad.
Personally, I like saturated fats as found in Coconuts, and I suspect there
is merit to the form of Omega 6 called CLA. Without dietary fat, the body
makes its own fats. I have wondered if dietary fat is healthier than the
fat the body can make.


"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1188091526.151310.26990@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
>
> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> their daily diet??
>

On Aug 25, 8:25 pm, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> only form of energy for the body is sugar....

Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
synthesize proteins.

Fatty acids supply energy as well as glucose.

> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> their daily diet??

Stored fat is used for daily energy needs, however, excess calories
cause more fat to be stored.

PUFA, mega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
metabolism and brain function.

Saturated fats don't have any well known benefit to the human diet,
and are suspected of contributing to cardiovascular disease and type
II diabetes.

--
Ron

On Aug 25, 6:25 pm, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar?

The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.

The longer, but not longest, answer
1. There are 20 amino acids in protein. Each one has a different
pathway by which it is converted into fats or sugars and waste
products.
2. We can make some of those amino acids, but we lack the metabolic
pathways to make some of the 20. If one vital amino acid is missing,
you can't make any protein. This is why you can't live on a corn diet
(no lysine) but you can live on corn, rice and beans.
3. It takes a huge amount of energy to make protein, but you don't get
much of it back when you destroy it for energy. This is why you can't
live on lean spring rabbits.

>>(I'm
> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> only form of energy for the body is sugar....)

No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.


> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> their daily diet??

'Good' fats are usually not used for energy. They're used for
structure, cell membranes, etc. Bad fats aren't bad, either,
especially if you work very hard in a cold climate. Only fat can give
you enough energy. It's all in the amount you eat.

(Says corpulent)
Dangerous Bill

Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:

> 'Good' fats are usually not used for energy. They're used for
> structure, cell membranes, etc. Bad fats aren't bad, either,
> especially if you work very hard in a cold climate. Only fat can give
> you enough energy. It's all in the amount you eat.

In the winter, polar bears hunting on the ice will eat only the
blubber of seals, leaving the meat and bones to the wolves who follow
the bears, and then what the wolves don't eat is taken by the foxes,
who have been following the wolves, who have been following the
bears.

It almost makes you want to break out into a song from "Lion King"

David

"PUFA, omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
metabolism and brain function."

False, Ron. Did you not see my post of a couple of days ago. I
examined the original experiments, and it was vitamin B6 deficiency.
When they fed the rats B6 but no fat, the rats were fine. They made
Mead acid, and in other studies, actually lived longer than the rats
fed "essential fatty acids." If you don't believe me, you are free to
take me up on the experimental offer I've made to you time and time
again. Stop spreading these very dangerous myths - you might hurt
someone badly. And how can I see all kinds of benefits, and no
problems, after deciding to avoid dietary PUFA since 2001? Do you or
do you not understand what a direct refutation is in science, and what
role it plays in the scientific method?

My free site is at:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-

You can see relevant citations and quotations on the threads with
titles that are obviously on point (e.g., "Mead acid studies").

In article <1188100597.168811.36270@i38g2000prf.googlegroups. com>,
Bill Penrose <penrose@iit.edu> wrote:

> The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
> supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.

<lol>

Good joke...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Bill Penrose wrote:

> No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
> that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
> not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
> supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.


Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.

Cheers,

Ari


--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1188091526.151310.26990@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
> only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
>
> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
> their daily diet??

Do we really have to have this conversation for the umpteenth time? Fat
"apparently turns" to sugar? Coal turns to gold? Alchemy. The body
not using stored fat for its daily needs? Try dieting.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:1188100046.192959.113050@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 25, 8:25 pm, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
>> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
>> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
>> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
>> only form of energy for the body is sugar....
>
> Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
> synthesize proteins.
>
> Fatty acids supply energy as well as glucose.
>
>> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
>> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
>> their daily diet??
>
> Stored fat is used for daily energy needs, however, excess calories
> cause more fat to be stored.
>
> PUFA, mega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
> metabolism and brain function.
>
> Saturated fats don't have any well known benefit to the human diet,
> and are suspected of contributing to cardiovascular disease and type
> II diabetes.
>
> --
> Ron
>
>


You need to get your head out of your ass and read a bit more. Yes, PUFAs
are high in all the essential fatty acids, but there are MANY types of
saturated fats and not all lead to any cardiovascular problems. I'll bet you
an arm and a leg that you are a fat ass.

--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/


"Bill Penrose" <penrose@iit.edu> wrote in message
news:1188100597.168811.36270@i38g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 25, 6:25 pm, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
>> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
>> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar?
>
> The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
> nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.
>
> The longer, but not longest, answer
> 1. There are 20 amino acids in protein. Each one has a different
> pathway by which it is converted into fats or sugars and waste
> products.
> 2. We can make some of those amino acids, but we lack the metabolic
> pathways to make some of the 20. If one vital amino acid is missing,
> you can't make any protein. This is why you can't live on a corn diet
> (no lysine) but you can live on corn, rice and beans.
> 3. It takes a huge amount of energy to make protein, but you don't get
> much of it back when you destroy it for energy. This is why you can't
> live on lean spring rabbits.
>
>>>(I'm
>> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
>> only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
>
> No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
> that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
> not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
> supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.



That is completely wrong. I am NOT a fan of ketogenic diets, but to say one
can't burn fat on them is just incorrect.


>
>
>> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
>> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
>> their daily diet??
>
> 'Good' fats are usually not used for energy. They're used for
> structure, cell membranes, etc. Bad fats aren't bad, either,
> especially if you work very hard in a cold climate. Only fat can give
> you enough energy. It's all in the amount you eat.
>
> (Says corpulent)
> Dangerous Bill
>
>
>
>

I'm guessing all these clue less people are not from MFW.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

<monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1188111175.029739.156450@r34g2000hsd.googlegr oups.com...
> "PUFA, omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
> metabolism and brain function."
>
> False, Ron. Did you not see my post of a couple of days ago. I
> examined the original experiments, and it was vitamin B6 deficiency.
> When they fed the rats B6 but no fat, the rats were fine. They made
> Mead acid, and in other studies, actually lived longer than the rats
> fed "essential fatty acids." If you don't believe me, you are free to
> take me up on the experimental offer I've made to you time and time
> again. Stop spreading these very dangerous myths - you might hurt
> someone badly. And how can I see all kinds of benefits, and no
> problems, after deciding to avoid dietary PUFA since 2001? Do you or
> do you not understand what a direct refutation is in science, and what
> role it plays in the scientific method?
>
> My free site is at:
>
> http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-
>
> You can see relevant citations and quotations on the threads with
> titles that are obviously on point (e.g., "Mead acid studies").
>


Wow! Yet another SPAMMING asshole who thinks he knows about diet. If I had
nickel for every idiot like this guy I have seen in Usenet, I could buy and
sell Bill Gates 50 times over. There is a reason why they are called
essential fatty acids. Your fake rats studies don't hold water with humans.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188101533.160196.116070@z24g2000prh.googlegr oups.com...
> Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
>
>> 'Good' fats are usually not used for energy. They're used for
>> structure, cell membranes, etc. Bad fats aren't bad, either,
>> especially if you work very hard in a cold climate. Only fat can give
>> you enough energy. It's all in the amount you eat.
>
> In the winter, polar bears hunting on the ice will eat only the
> blubber of seals, leaving the meat and bones to the wolves who follow
> the bears, and then what the wolves don't eat is taken by the foxes,
> who have been following the wolves, who have been following the
> bears.
>
> It almost makes you want to break out into a song from "Lion King"
>
> David
>
>

That is true, but we aren't Polar bears either! ;-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:5je7aqF3sj8mmU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1188091526.151310.26990@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> Then how come the body can't use stored fat when it needs protein?
>> What, biochemically speaking, prevents it from turning fat back into
>> protein the way it apparently turns fat back into sugar? (I'm
>> assuming that 'cause stored fat is used for energy, right? And the
>> only form of energy for the body is sugar....)
>>
>> And why doesn't the body use stored fat for its daily fat needs -- why
>> are people trying to lose fat still advised to get ("good") fats in
>> their daily diet??
>
> Do we really have to have this conversation for the umpteenth time? Fat
> "apparently turns" to sugar? Coal turns to gold? Alchemy. The body not
> using stored fat for its daily needs? Try dieting.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>

Steve,
This guy obviously has never met anyone whom has become leaner through diet
and hard work!! :-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

On Aug 26, 2:32 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
> Bill Penrose wrote:
> > No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
> > that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
> > not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
> > supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.

> Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
> pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
> cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.

Glucogenesis produces glucose from glycerol and proteins, not fatty
acids. Glycerol is only a small part of triglycerides.

--
Ron

How is it "spam?" I make no money from my site and have nothing to
sell. Would you like me to copy and paste all the evidence I have on
my site every time someone asks a relevant question? Perhaps if you
would remove your head from your hind quarters you would realize that
just because someone has a web site and references it does not mean
there is a "spam" issue involved. If you want to discuss the science,
then cite your evidence and let's talk science. This is supposed to
be a scientific newsgroup. There is no "opinion" in my post. The
experiments are part of the scientific literature, and nobody has ever
claimed that they were fraudulent or in any was suspect (some were
done at M.I.T.).

Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Aug 26, 2:32 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
>> Bill Penrose wrote:
>>> No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
>>> that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
>>> not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
>>> supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.
>
>> Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
>> pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
>> cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.
>
> Glucogenesis produces glucose from glycerol and proteins, not fatty
> acids. Glycerol is only a small part of triglycerides.
>
> --
> Ron
>

No, that is incorrect. Gluconeogenesis pathway produces glucose from
pyruvate/oxaloacetate. Oxaloacetate can be taken right from the citric
acid cycle, regardless of its source molecule (in this example, fatty
acids). Glycerol is not needed, and nor are amino acids, although some
amino acids can be used to get the oxaloacetate.


Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"PUFAs are high in all the essential fatty acids..."

This statement just shows how incredibly, aggressively ignorant of the
subject you are - you don't even understand the terminology. In your
case, I advise you ingest large amounts of what you believe to be the
"essential fatty acids." Report back to us what happens about ten
years from now, if you last that long.

For those with an open mind, "saturated fat" is a phrase that lacks
scientific precision and is useless (in fact, it may be worse than
useless, to the extent that it misleads). Lard is considered a
"saturated fat" by most "experts," but is only about 40% saturated,
not much more saturated than chicken fat, for example. Coconut oil is
over 90% saturated. However, the actual saturated fatty acids are not
all the same, and can have different effects. Some SFAs are said to
raise cholesterol levels while at least one SFA is said to lower it.
Because CHD is now understood down to the molecular-level, this
information is no longer relevant. Oxidized LDL is to blame, and LDL
containing a lot of PUFAs are susceptible to oxidation. Therefore,
basic logic dictates that if you avoid dietary PUFAs and of course
dietary cholesterol that is largely oxidized (steamed salmon is
especially bad, for example), then there is no reason to fear
saturated fatty acids. Lard is unhealthy due to what is in it besides
the saturated fatty acids, not because of the saturated fatty acids.
Once you understand this, you can examine the actual findings of
various studies and it will make sense to you. If something does not
make sense, you can ask me questions on my free site. I do not charge
any fees, and make absolutely no money, directly or indirectly, by
doing this. I am "giving" my time, trying to help people. The site
is sponsored by Microsoft, which allows me to do this for free (they
put small banner ads up on top of the page, and it has nothing to do
with me).

On Aug 25, 11:52 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> "PUFA, omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
> metabolism and brain function."
>
> False, Ron.

Ron's statement simply reflects the current mainstream understanding.

If a better understanding replaces that one, it's unlikely that this
will come from some lame Internet crackpots.

> And how can I see all kinds of benefits, and no
> problems, after deciding to avoid dietary PUFA since 2001?

You might have /decided/ to do that, but it's next to impossible.
You'd have to avoid fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, dairy, etc.
Basically all food.

This causes me to wonder, what exactly do you eat? Ah, your website
has the answer to that:

``Aside from fresh fruit, especially bananas (though I'm not sure if
bananas are technicaly a "fruit"), I eat a lot of cheese along with
ricotta, which can be the same as cheese, or be made with whey, which
will change the amino acid profile a litte. I also eat other dairy,
such as butter, sour cream, and yogurt, but never with additives such
as carrageenan.'' [... etc]

Doh, dairy contains PUFA. It's a source of omega-3 and omega-6 EFA's,
as are other things in your diet.

If Ron is a medical doctor, I fear for the well being of his patients.

On Aug 26, 6:12 pm, "Hard Bop Drums" <nos...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message

> > PUFA, mega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
> > metabolism and brain function.

> > Saturated fats don't have any well known benefit to the human diet,
> > and are suspected of contributing to cardiovascular disease and type
> > II diabetes.

> You need to get your head out of your ass and read a bit more. Yes, PUFAs
> are high in all the essential fatty acids, but there are MANY types of
> saturated fats and not all lead to any cardiovascular problems. I'll bet you
> an arm and a leg that you are a fat ass.

You don't have it quite right. Oils that are high in PUFA, don't
necessarily have all the essential fatty acids, particularly those
common in fish oil (EPA & DHA).

The short chained saturated fatty acids may be comparatively safe, but
fats that are highly saturated aren't dominated by SCFA.

I try to be very careful about my sources of information being
skeptical of vegan and "natural/organic" web sites and publications.

--
Ron

Hey, you can tune out, you know...I mean, you don't have to read every
single post on MFW!

How about you try "real life" some time....


On Aug 26, 4:51 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>
> Do we really have to have this conversation for the umpteenth time? Fat
> "apparently turns" to sugar? Coal turns to gold? Alchemy. The body
> not using stored fat for its daily needs? Try dieting.
>
> -S-http://www.kbnj.com

On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
> Um, uh.
>
> Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.

I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!

> Sugar is not the only form of energy for the body. Ketones are a big one,
> if you don't guzzle carbs. Alcohol, I think, can too.

Perhaps, I don't know; the point of my question isn't whether sugar is
the only form of energy for the body (though if what you say is true I
thank you for the edification), but how come fat cannot be converted
back to protein the way fat can be converted back to sugar.

> The body does not need to use stored fats, if the diet has too many
> calories.

Indeed.

> There are entire books saying that each kind of fat is the best fat, and all
> the books contradict each other. Most agree that trans fats are bad.

Yeah, it's a jungle out there!

> Personally, I like saturated fats as found in Coconuts, and I suspect there
> is merit to the form of Omega 6 called CLA. Without dietary fat, the body
> makes its own fats. I have wondered if dietary fat is healthier than the
> fat the body can make.

Well, I'm wondering why the advice to ingest dietary fat, even though
the body already has fat.

On Aug 26, 4:12 pm, "Hard Bop Drums" <nos...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
> You need to get your head out of your ass and read a bit more. Yes, PUFAs
> are high in all the essential fatty acids,

Makes no sense whatsoever. The essential fatty acids are types of
PUFA. PUFA is a class of which EFA's are members, as are many more non-
essential fats, including toxic ones.

On Aug 25, 11:47 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
>
> Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
> synthesize proteins.

So how do proteins, which contain amino acids, get converted into
fat? The body just tosses out the amino acids when it decides that
protein intake has become excessive (and in what terms -- that
particular minute, hour, day, what?) and decides to turn it into
fat??? But I thought protein was made of amino acids?? So if you
toss it out, then you're tossing out protein!

> <SNIP>
>
>
>
> --
> Ron

On Aug 25, 11:56 pm, Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
>
>
> The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
> nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.

Oh! Thanks...and I guess the body can't just grab some floating
nitrogen and add it to fat and convert that fat into protein, eh....

> The longer, but not longest, answer
> 1. There are 20 amino acids in protein. Each one has a different
> pathway by which it is converted into fats or sugars and waste
> products.

Ah! Check.

> 2. We can make some of those amino acids, but we lack the metabolic
> pathways to make some of the 20. If one vital amino acid is missing,
> you can't make any protein. This is why you can't live on a corn diet
> (no lysine) but you can live on corn, rice and beans.

Hmm! Check.

> 3. It takes a huge amount of energy to make protein, but you don't get
> much of it back when you destroy it for energy. This is why you can't
> live on lean spring rabbits.

Whuh? Um, check.

> No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
> that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
> not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
> supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.

Okay, so it needs some sugar in order to burn fat. Seems like God has
a very round-about, Rube Goldberg way of engineering things!

> 'Good' fats are usually not used for energy. They're used for
> structure, cell membranes, etc.

Yeah, but why can't the body use the fat stores it already has for
these cell membranes and so forth??

>Bad fats aren't bad, either,
> especially if you work very hard in a cold climate. Only fat can give
> you enough energy. It's all in the amount you eat.
>
> (Says corpulent)
> Dangerous Bill

In article <1188227151.911715.152680@22g2000hsm.googlegroups. com>,
Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Aug 25, 11:47 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Fats don't contain amino acids which are necessary for the body to
> > synthesize proteins.
>
> So how do proteins, which contain amino acids, get converted into
> fat? The body just tosses out the amino acids when it decides that
> protein intake has become excessive (and in what terms -- that
> particular minute, hour, day, what?) and decides to turn it into
> fat??? But I thought protein was made of amino acids?? So if you
> toss it out, then you're tossing out protein!
>

Look up the structure of a protein (amino acid) molecule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_structure

It contains carbon atoms and carboxyl groups.

In other words...

Atoms capable of constructing carbohydrates.

The body can strip the nitrogen from the protein molecular structure and
use the remaining atoms to create glucose thru a process known as
gluconeogenesis.

This takes place in the liver.

It helps to have taken Biochemistry in College as well as taking the
time to study sports nutrition. ;-)

I hope this helps your understanding a bit.

Seriously.

Excess protein can still be converted to fat.

The human body is an amazing chemistry factory.

Excess nitrogen not utilized to create protein structures in the body is
excreted by the kidneys as urea. (pee)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1188226457.202721.189060@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Hey, you can tune out, you know...I mean, you don't have to read every
> single post on MFW!
>
> How about you try "real life" some time....

OK, sure, thanks for the advice.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>
> On Aug 26, 4:51 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Do we really have to have this conversation for the umpteenth time?
>> Fat
>> "apparently turns" to sugar? Coal turns to gold? Alchemy. The body
>> not using stored fat for its daily needs? Try dieting.
>>
>> -S-http://www.kbnj.com
>
>

On Aug 27, 10:00 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
>
> > Um, uh.
>
> > Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.
>
> I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
> glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!

No that is not correct ... the body cannot convert proteins to stored
fat ... In fact, it cannot store ingested fat ... The body can only
convert and store excess carbohydrates as fat ... not even alcohol ...

In article <1188235305.400845.166430@50g2000hsm.googlegroups. com>,
number6 <snumber6@aol.com> wrote:

> On Aug 27, 10:00 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
> >
> > > Um, uh.
> >
> > > Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.
> >
> > I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
> > glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!
>
> No that is not correct ... the body cannot convert proteins to stored
> fat ... In fact, it cannot store ingested fat ... The body can only
> convert and store excess carbohydrates as fat ... not even alcohol ...

In your dreams...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Aug 27, 8:12 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 11:56 pm, Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
> > The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
> > nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.
>
> Oh! Thanks...and I guess the body can't just grab some floating
> nitrogen and add it to fat and convert that fat into protein, eh....

Naw, you have to be a pea or another legume to do that (and the
process is actually carried out by nitrogen-fixing bacteria in the
root nodules). For most metabolic purposes, nitrogen is an inert gas.


> Okay, so it needs some sugar in order to burn fat. Seems like God has
> a very round-about, Rube Goldberg way of engineering things!

It's a miracle that it works at all, even more amazing that it works
for nearly a century without all that much maintenance. You can thank
God or Darwin, it's still amazing as hell.


> Yeah, but why can't the body use the fat stores it already has for
> these cell membranes and so forth??

It can, but it can't make unsaturated fats. A cell membrane is made of
a mixture of saturated and unsaturated fats, specially compounded to
give it just the right degree of fluidity.

DB

Corpulent "Bill Penrose" <penrose@iit.edu> wrote in message
news:1188245924.164538.188970@e9g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
>> > The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
>> > nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.
>>
> Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Oh! Thanks...and I guess the body can't just grab some floating
>> nitrogen and add it to fat and convert that fat into protein, eh....
>
Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
> Naw, you have to be a pea or another legume to do that (and the
> process is actually carried out by nitrogen-fixing bacteria in the
> root nodules). For most metabolic purposes, nitrogen is an inert gas.
>
[hanson]
.... ahahahaha... ok then, since there is plenty of N2 in then blood
stream, let's dream about the development of a "supplement"
or pill that contains GE nitrogen fixing bacteria, appropriate
enzymes and the required trace minerals (V & Mo, IIRC), and
have them bugs manufacture proteins in the stomach or upper
gut so that we can thrive on daisies and cuttings from our lawns....
ahahahaha... ahahanson

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:04:35 GMT, "hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
wrote:

>
>Corpulent "Bill Penrose" <penrose@iit.edu> wrote in message
>news:1188245924.164538.188970@e9g2000prf.googlegr oups.com...
>>> > The short answer is nitrogen. There's no nitrogen in fats. The
>>> > nitrogen is wizzed out as urea after the decomposition of protein.
>>>
>> Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Oh! Thanks...and I guess the body can't just grab some floating
>>> nitrogen and add it to fat and convert that fat into protein, eh....
>>
>Bill Penrose <penr...@iit.edu> wrote:
>> Naw, you have to be a pea or another legume to do that (and the
>> process is actually carried out by nitrogen-fixing bacteria in the
>> root nodules). For most metabolic purposes, nitrogen is an inert gas.
>>
>[hanson]
>... ahahahaha... ok then, since there is plenty of N2 in then blood
>stream, let's dream about the development of a "supplement"
>or pill that contains GE nitrogen fixing bacteria, appropriate
>enzymes and the required trace minerals (V & Mo, IIRC), and
>have them bugs manufacture proteins in the stomach or upper
>gut so that we can thrive on daisies and cuttings from our lawns....
>ahahahaha... ahahanson
>
My uncle, who lived in Alamosa, Colorado, some years back, used
his lawn clippings to feed a number of white rabbits, then his
family ate the rabbits as they reached maturity.

He used one of those little reel type push mowers to mow about
1/7 of his lawn each day. He then placed the clippings in his
rabbit hutches each morning and the rabbits were quite contented
with their fare.

There was an ample supply of lawn clippings for rabbit food
through the summer months, but when winter came he had to feed
the breeding rabbits alfalfa and commercial rabbit food.

This all worked out very well and he was able to market many of
the rabbits. They usually had many more than his family could
eat.

He sold the rabbit pelts to a furrier who used them for clothing
decorations and glove linings.

Gordon

Kaz Kylheku" <kkylheku@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188191405.425117.8390@q4g2000prc.googlegroup s.com...
> On Aug 25, 11:52 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
>> "PUFA, omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
>> metabolism and brain function."
>>
>> False, Ron.
>
> Ron's statement simply reflects the current mainstream understanding.
>
> If a better understanding replaces that one, it's unlikely that this
> will come from some lame Internet crackpots.
>
>> And how can I see all kinds of benefits, and no
>> problems, after deciding to avoid dietary PUFA since 2001?
>
> You might have /decided/ to do that, but it's next to impossible.
> You'd have to avoid fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, dairy, etc.
> Basically all food.
>
> This causes me to wonder, what exactly do you eat? Ah, your website
> has the answer to that:
>
> ``Aside from fresh fruit, especially bananas (though I'm not sure if
> bananas are technicaly a "fruit"), I eat a lot of cheese along with
> ricotta, which can be the same as cheese, or be made with whey, which
> will change the amino acid profile a litte. I also eat other dairy,
> such as butter, sour cream, a