Need guidance

Hi
I have started workout a month ago.
I am 26 yrs old with around 5'10".

What I want (in me) is
- Broad look/shoulders
- Straight chest (means not big like wrestlers)
- Good big muscles in shoulders, arms area.
- Good shape body

Whats I am looking for is
- Good plan (excercises, reps etc) for 3 days a week
- Some diet requirement guide/suggestions

Would highly appreciate if you guide me &/or
refer to some site.

Thanks

In news:1172732293.490272.83380@h3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com,
Reader <consistencymatters@gmail.com> typed:
> Hi
> I have started workout a month ago.
> I am 26 yrs old with around 5'10".
>
> What I want (in me) is
> - Broad look/shoulders
> - Straight chest (means not big like wrestlers)
> - Good big muscles in shoulders, arms area.
> - Good shape body
>
> Whats I am looking for is
> - Good plan (excercises, reps etc) for 3 days a week
> - Some diet requirement guide/suggestions
>
> Would highly appreciate if you guide me &/or
> refer to some site.
>
> Thanks

http://www.davedraper.com

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

On Feb 28, 11:25 pm, "Bully" <bull...@proteinbars.co.ok> wrote:
> Innews:1172732293.490272.83380@h3g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com,
> Reader <consistencymatt...@gmail.com> typed:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi
> > I have started workout a month ago.
> > I am 26 yrs old with around 5'10".
>
> > What I want (in me) is
> > - Broad look/shoulders
> > - Straight chest (means not big like wrestlers)
> > - Good big muscles in shoulders, arms area.
> > - Good shape body
>
> > Whats I am looking for is
> > - Good plan (excercises, reps etc) for 3 days a week
> > - Some diet requirement guide/suggestions
>
> > Would highly appreciate if you guide me &/or
> > refer to some site.
>
> > Thanks
>
> http://www.davedraper.com
>
> --
> Bully
> Protein bars:http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
> the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for quick response.
Btw I found this one appropriate for me.
http://www.davedraper.com/entire-body-routine.html
But i concern. Do you think this all body-parts should
be done 3 days a week or i should split ?
Because I have seen many people focusing 2-3 parts
a day.

On Mar 1, 3:58 am, "Reader" <consistencymatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
> I have started workout a month ago.
> I am 26 yrs old with around 5'10".
>
> What I want (in me) is
> - Broad look/shoulders
> - Straight chest (means not big like wrestlers)
> - Good big muscles in shoulders, arms area.
> - Good shape body
>
> Whats I am looking for is
> - Good plan (excercises, reps etc) for 3 days a week
> - Some diet requirement guide/suggestions
>
> Would highly appreciate if you guide me &/or
> refer to some site.
>
> Thanks


First, you want to nail your form down. The most productive exercises,
like squats, are bad for your body if you do them incorrectly. If you
can´t get *competent* instruction (hard to come by in nowadays flex
ethos), get the book 'Starting Strength', by Mark Rippetoe. There are
52 pages dedicated to the performance of the squat, with tips and cue
points to look for[1].

Next, read the routine, programming and exercise descriptions outlined
here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

Basically, you alternate A & B workouts, with a day of rest between
them, upping weights in small increments every session.

A workout
--------------
3x5 squats
3x5 bench
3x5 bar (or pendlay) rows
Dips *
Ab work *

B workout
---------------
3x5 squats
3x5 standing military press
1x5 deadlift
Chins/pullups *

* -> means optional.

Eat & rest accordingly.

[1] I have Stuart McRobert's 'Insider's tell all...', and frankly,
it's like comparing a popular mechanics rag to an mechanical
engineering course. Get the rippetoe book.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2007, Reader wrote:

> What I want (in me) is
> - Broad look/shoulders
> - Straight chest (means not big like wrestlers)
> - Good big muscles in shoulders, arms area.
> - Good shape body

What you may not have realised is the importance of the back in getting
this look; it's the foundation of the V-shaped torso.

> Whats I am looking for is
> - Good plan (excercises, reps etc) for 3 days a week

Do a whole-body routine, with these exercises:

Incline bench press
Row
Shoulder press
Pulldown
Upright row
Squats or leg presses (for the legs; you do need some balance!)

Do the bench and shoulder presses with dumbbells; you can use free weights
or machines for the rest, it doesn't matter too much (whichever allows you
to isolate your left and right sides most effectively). Use a narrow,
shoulder-level grip for the rows, and a wide grip for the pulldowns. Don't
lift the upright row beyond your nipples.

Make sure you're lifting as much as you can; you should be reaching or
almost reaching failure by your last rep.

You may find, after a while, that your back and shoulder development is
outpacing your arms; in that case, add bicep curls and standing tricep
extensions, both done with dumbbells, at the end of the workout. If you
need to drop something to make time for them, drop the bench press or
pulldown.

Do two sets of 10 reps of each exercise. If you want to make a particular
lift a little more effective, try adding one set of 15 or more, with
correspondingly lighter weight, after that.

> - Some diet requirement guide/suggestions

Drink a protein shake right after each workout, and eat larger-than-normal
quantities of normal, healthy food the rest of the time.

Ignore what Dave Draper or other famous bodybuilders have to say. They got
huge by being genetically gifted, obsessively dedicated and pumped full of
drugs - their experience is not relevant to you. Mine is. Also, i am a
genius.

HTH.

tom

--
.... but when you spin it it looks like a dancing foetus!

Dnia 2007-03-01 Reader napisa³(a):
> On Feb 28, 11:25 pm, "Bully" <bull...@proteinbars.co.ok> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.davedraper.com
>
> Thanks for quick response.
> Btw I found this one appropriate for me.
> http://www.davedraper.com/entire-body-routine.html
> But i concern. Do you think this all body-parts should
> be done 3 days a week or i should split ?
> Because I have seen many people focusing 2-3 parts
> a day.

Do they train three times a week? If so, I doubt that they train
optimally. If they train almost daily, this kind of split makes more
sense (but I don't do it anyway, for example).

Anyway, the routine Dave wrote is kind of ambitious. I mean, If you
can handle it, go for it. If you can't, do just one exercise for
each outlined bodypart. I think that you should do at least two sets
of every chosen exercise. If fat loss is one of your goals, go brisk
through your workout, do not sit between sets, use supersets and keep
your heart rate high. You will "burn" fat just fine this way.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:

> Drink a protein shake right after each workout, and eat larger-than-normal
> quantities of normal, healthy food the rest of the time.

> Ignore what Dave Draper or other famous bodybuilders have to say. They got
> huge by being genetically gifted, obsessively dedicated and pumped full of
> drugs - their experience is not relevant to you.

Sounds good to me.

Problem is, YOU are not a Blond Bomber. Neither am i.

People still WANT to hear they should do some exotic workout.

> Mine is. Also, i am a genius.

I guess we are both gifted, but often misunderstood.

--
Pete

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:45e940b2$0$78129$dbd43001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:
>
>> Drink a protein shake right after each workout, and eat
>> larger-than-normal quantities of normal, healthy food the rest of the
>> time.
>
>> Ignore what Dave Draper or other famous bodybuilders have to say. They
>> got huge by being genetically gifted, obsessively dedicated and pumped
>> full of drugs - their experience is not relevant to you.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> Problem is, YOU are not a Blond Bomber. Neither am i.
>
> People still WANT to hear they should do some exotic workout.
>
>> Mine is. Also, i am a genius.
>
> I guess we are both gifted, but often misunderstood.
>

Shut up your moron

> --
> Pete
>

"David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> schreef:

>>> Mine is. Also, i am a genius.

>> I guess we are both gifted, but often misunderstood.

> Shut up your moron

Are you talkin to me?

--
Pete

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:45e947db$0$96242$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> schreef:
>
>>>> Mine is. Also, i am a genius.
>
>>> I guess we are both gifted, but often misunderstood.
>
>> Shut up your moron
>
> Are you talkin to me?
>

No, I was talkin to your moron


> --
> Pete
>

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Pete wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:
>
>> Ignore what Dave Draper or other famous bodybuilders have to say. They got
>> huge by being genetically gifted, obsessively dedicated and pumped full of
>> drugs - their experience is not relevant to you.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> Problem is, YOU are not a Blond Bomber. Neither am i.
>
> People still WANT to hear they should do some exotic workout.

Like the Rolling Stones sang, you can't always get what you want, but if
you try sometimes, you just might find my boot up your arse.

tom

--
WHO REPLACED THE CLIENT FILES WITH TEQUILA.. ALFONZ??

"David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au> schreef:

>>> Shut up your moron

>> Are you talkin to me?

> No, I was talkin to your moron

Idiot.

--
Pete

Sag wrote:
> "Reader" wrote:
[...]

> > I have started workout a month ago.
> > I am 26 yrs old with around 5'10".
>
> > What I want (in me) is
> > - Broad look/shoulders

"Broad look" comes from clavicle or collar bone length, imo. But you
can, hopefully, build up your delts giving them that rounded, full
look.

> > - Straight chest (means not big like wrestlers)

You mean what? No bulky chest or thick muscles there?

> > - Good big muscles in shoulders, arms area.
> > - Good shape body

Again, as with the whole you-get-what-Mother-Nature-gave-you
philosophy, the "Good shape body" is something you can't really
create from scratch. You're 5'10", your shoulders are a certain width,
your body shape is what it is. Certainly, you can add muscle to your
structure, but you can't turn a Volkswagen into a Humvee.

> > Whats I am looking for is
> > - Good plan (excercises, reps etc) for 3
> > days a week
> > - Some diet requirement guide/suggestions
>
> > Would highly appreciate if you guide me &/or
> > refer to some site.

Tom's advice (elsewhere in this thread) looks good. (Hey, he's a
genius - who am I to argue?)

> > Thanks
>
> First, you want to nail your form down.
[...]

> get the book 'Starting Strength', by Mark
> Rippetoe. There are 52 pages dedicated
> to the performance of the squat, with tips
> and cue points to look for<snip>
>
> Next, read the routine, programming and
> exercise descriptions outlined here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224
>
> Basically, you alternate A & B workouts,
> with a day of rest between them, upping
> weights in small increments every session.
>
> A workout
> --------------
> 3x5 squats
> 3x5 bench
> 3x5 bar (or pendlay) rows
> Dips *
> Ab work *
>
> B workout
> ---------------
> 3x5 squats
> 3x5 standing military press
> 1x5 deadlift
> Chins/pullups *
>
> * -> means optional.
>
> Eat & rest accordingly.
[...]

I like Sag's recommendations as well, but not sure about the rep
count. From my perspective, I found the 8-12 rep-range more productive
than 5-rep sets. Ymmv, of course.

--
Curt

Pete wrote:
> "David" schreef:
[...]

> >> I guess we are both gifted, but
> >> often misunderstood.
>
> > Shut up your moron

David, are you trying to offer up an example of you being gifted but
misunderstood? I think your example - if that's what it was - fell
short. S

> Are you talkin to me?

Cool! Movie quotes! I know this one! I know this one!

DeNiro in Taxi Driver, right?

> Pete

Recently saw The Departed. Unrelated to DeNiro, but a great movie
nonetheless. Sorry, no quotes.

--
Curt

Tom Anderson wrote:
[...]

> Do the bench and shoulder presses
> with dumbbells; you can use free weights
> or machines for the rest, it doesn't matter
> too much (whichever allows you to isolate
> your left and right sides most effectively).
> Use a narrow, shoulder-level grip for the

Did you mean shoulder-width grip?

> rows, and a wide grip for the pulldowns.
> Don't lift the upright row beyond your nipples.

Wrt upright row below that height, is that to avoid rotator cuff
injuries?

(NOW he tells me.)

[...]

> Ignore what Dave Draper or other famous
> bodybuilders have to say. They got huge
> by being genetically gifted, obsessively
> dedicated and pumped full of drugs - their
> experience is not relevant to you. Mine is.
> Also, i am a genius.
>
> HTH.
>
> tom

I think that's unfair to Draper, but, hey, like I said, I'm not the
genius. ;o)

--
Curt

Pete wrote:
[...]

> Idiot.

Ooh! MORE movie quotes! Hmmm.

Napoleon Dynamite?

> Pete

--
Curt

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Curt wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> Do the bench and shoulder presses with dumbbells; you can use free
>> weights or machines for the rest, it doesn't matter too much (whichever
>> allows you to isolate your left and right sides most effectively). Use
>> a narrow, shoulder-level grip for the
>
> Did you mean shoulder-width grip?

No. The traditional row brings the weight to a point that's shoulder-width
but level with the bottom of your xiphoid (ish):

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...ntOverRow.html

I favour a style where the weight basically ends up in your armpit -
shoulder-width and shoulder-level. I have absolutely no evidence to back
this up, but i believe it shifts the emphasis away from the lats and
towards the rhomboids, delts, traps, teres, etc, turning into more of an
upper back exercise than a lat exercise. Since my suggested routine also
includes pulldowns, a lat exercise, this leads to a more even working-out
of the back.

>> rows, and a wide grip for the pulldowns. Don't lift the upright row
>> beyond your nipples.
>
> Wrt upright row below that height, is that to avoid rotator cuff
> injuries?

To avoid impingement. Subscapularis or something? I read it on a
newsgroup.

Subacromial! That's it.

> (NOW he tells me.)

Hey, it's been raised here many times before!

tom

--
If you tolerate this, your children will be next.

Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Curt wrote:
>>
>> Wrt upright row below that height, is that to avoid rotator cuff
>> injuries?
>
>To avoid impingement. Subscapularis or something? I read it on a
>newsgroup.
>
>Subacromial! That's it.
>
>> (NOW he tells me.)
>
>Hey, it's been raised here many times before!

But he didn't listen, and now he's got a tumor on his neck.

See what happens?

Tom Anderson wrote:
> Curt wrote:
> > Tom Anderson wrote:
[...]

> >> allows you to isolate your left and
> >> right sides most effectively). Use
> >> a narrow, shoulder-level grip for the
>
> > Did you mean shoulder-width grip?
>
> No.

Okay.

> The traditional row brings the weight to a
> point that's shoulder-width but level with
> the bottom of your xiphoid (ish):
>
> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...ntOverRow.html

>
> I favour a style where the weight basically
> ends up in your armpit -
> shoulder-width and shoulder-level. I have
> absolutely no evidence to back this up,
> but i believe it shifts the emphasis away from
> the lats and towards the rhomboids, delts,
> traps, teres, etc, turning into more of an
> upper back exercise than a lat exercise.
> Since my suggested routine also includes
> pulldowns, a lat exercise, this leads to a
> more even working-out of the back.

So, your torso is at a steepish angle rather than parallel to the
floor? The, what I've heard/read described as, Dorian Yates manner of
rows?

[...]

> > Wrt upright row below that height, is
> > that to avoid rotator cuff injuries?
>
> To avoid impingement. Subscapularis
> or something? I read it on a newsgroup.

THEN IT MUST BE TRUE! )

> Subacromial! That's it.
>
> > (NOW he tells me.)
>
> Hey, it's been raised here many times
> before!
>
> tom

Cool.

--
Curt

John M. Williams wrote:
> Tom Anderson wrote:
> >Curt wrote:
>
> >> <snip> is that to avoid rotator cuff
> >> injuries?
>
> >To avoid impingement. <snip>
>
> >> (NOW he tells me.)
>
> >Hey, it's been raised here many times
> >before!
>
> But he didn't listen,

I'm sure I did listen, but forgot. ;o)

> and now he's got a tumor on his neck.

Nominated.

> See what happens?

Yup. A tumor on my neck and one in my newsreader, apparently. D

--
Curt

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:

>> Did you mean shoulder-width grip?

> No. The traditional row brings the weight to a point that's shoulder-width
> but level with the bottom of your xiphoid (ish):

> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...ntOverRow.html

> I favour a style where the weight basically ends up in your armpit -
> shoulder-width and shoulder-level. I have absolutely no evidence to back
> this up, but i believe it shifts the emphasis away from the lats and
> towards the rhomboids, delts, traps, teres, etc, turning into more of an
> upper back exercise than a lat exercise.

We can use logic to determine if this is correct, but let me say that i
agree with the above.

The lats originate at the at the lower back region/hip, and insert at the
back of the humerus, right?
When you do a regular DB row, you pull the humerus in the direction of the
hip. Which dictate that the lats are highly involved.

Doing it your style, it pulls the humerus backwards, but the elbow doesnt
come any closer to the hip. Well, a little then, so the lats do a little
work.

> Since my suggested routine also
> includes pulldowns, a lat exercise, this leads to a more even working-out
> of the back.

I think narrow grips are best to hit the lats, with a declination of the
torso, to shift away load from the biceps to the lats.

Wide grip pulldowns will hit the lats very hard as well, but there is more
scapular retraction.

--
Pete

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, JMW wrote:

> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Curt wrote:
>>
>>> (NOW he tells me.)
>>
>> Hey, it's been raised here many times before!
>
> But he didn't listen, and now he's got a tumor on his neck.
>
> See what happens?

Step to mfw, get cancer. It's the way it is.

tom

--
The MAtrix had evarything in it: guns, a juimping off teh walls, flying
guns, a bullet tiem, evil computar machenes, numbers that flew, flying
gun bullets in slowar motian, juimping into a gun, dead police men,
computar hackeing, Kevin Mitnick, oven trailers, a old womans kitchen,
stairs, mature women in clotheing, head spark plugs, mechaanical squids,
Japaneseses assasins, tiem traval, volcanos, a monstar, slow time at
fastar speed, magic, wizzards, some dirty place, Kung Few, fighting,
a lot of mess explodsians EVARYWHERE, and just about anything else yuo
can names!

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Curt wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> Curt wrote:
>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
> [...]
>
>>>> allows you to isolate your left and right sides most effectively).
>>>> Use a narrow, shoulder-level grip for the
>>
>>> Did you mean shoulder-width grip?
>>
>> I favour a style where the weight basically ends up in your armpit -
>> shoulder-width and shoulder-level. I have absolutely no evidence to
>> back this up, but i believe it shifts the emphasis away from the lats
>> and towards the rhomboids, delts, traps, teres, etc, turning into more
>> of an upper back exercise than a lat exercise. Since my suggested
>> routine also includes pulldowns, a lat exercise, this leads to a more
>> even working-out of the back.
>
> So, your torso is at a steepish angle rather than parallel to the floor?
> The, what I've heard/read described as, Dorian Yates manner of rows?

No, torso is level as usual.

Your torso is level, you hold a weight in your hand and just let your arm
dangle directly down from your shoulder. Now pull it vertically until it
reaches your shoulder or armpit or whatever.

tom

--
The MAtrix had evarything in it: guns, a juimping off teh walls, flying
guns, a bullet tiem, evil computar machenes, numbers that flew, flying
gun bullets in slowar motian, juimping into a gun, dead police men,
computar hackeing, Kevin Mitnick, oven trailers, a old womans kitchen,
stairs, mature women in clotheing, head spark plugs, mechaanical squids,
Japaneseses assasins, tiem traval, volcanos, a monstar, slow time at
fastar speed, magic, wizzards, some dirty place, Kung Few, fighting,
a lot of mess explodsians EVARYWHERE, and just about anything else yuo
can names!

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007, Pete wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:
>
>>> Did you mean shoulder-width grip?
>
>> I favour a style where the weight basically ends up in your armpit -
>> shoulder-width and shoulder-level. I have absolutely no evidence to
>> back this up, but i believe it shifts the emphasis away from the lats
>> and towards the rhomboids, delts, traps, teres, etc, turning into more
>> of an upper back exercise than a lat exercise.
>
> We can use logic to determine if this is correct, but let me say that i
> agree with the above.
>
> The lats originate at the at the lower back region/hip, and insert at
> the back of the humerus, right? When you do a regular DB row, you pull
> the humerus in the direction of the hip. Which dictate that the lats are
> highly involved.
>
> Doing it your style, it pulls the humerus backwards, but the elbow
> doesnt come any closer to the hip. Well, a little then, so the lats do a
> little work.

That's pretty much my thinking.

>> Since my suggested routine also includes pulldowns, a lat exercise,
>> this leads to a more even working-out of the back.
>
> I think narrow grips are best to hit the lats, with a declination of the
> torso, to shift away load from the biceps to the lats.
>
> Wide grip pulldowns will hit the lats very hard as well, but there is
> more scapular retraction.

Makes sense, but it's not what the data says:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15228624
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Wide grips seem to be the most lat-specific.

tom

--
The MAtrix had evarything in it: guns, a juimping off teh walls, flying
guns, a bullet tiem, evil computar machenes, numbers that flew, flying
gun bullets in slowar motian, juimping into a gun, dead police men,
computar hackeing, Kevin Mitnick, oven trailers, a old womans kitchen,
stairs, mature women in clotheing, head spark plugs, mechaanical squids,
Japaneseses assasins, tiem traval, volcanos, a monstar, slow time at
fastar speed, magic, wizzards, some dirty place, Kung Few, fighting,
a lot of mess explodsians EVARYWHERE, and just about anything else yuo
can names!

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:

>> Wide grip pulldowns will hit the lats very hard as well, but there is
>> more scapular retraction.

> Makes sense, but it's not what the data says:

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15228624

"The average muscle activity during four tasks; wide grip pulldown, reverse
grip pull down [RGP], seated row with retracted scapula, and seated rows
with non-retracted scapulae was quantified during two 10 second isometric
portions of the four exercises."

They used single points of the ROM. Thats not clever.

When you do compound movements, several stages of the ROM hit some muscles
harder than other stages.
And they continually shift from beginning to end. Its not as if you use the
lats in the first half, and ther traps in the second, but they kinda morph
into one another.

With a complex movement like full ROM cable rows, where you use 4 different
movements into one, the load will continually shift throughout the ROM. The
lats really dont do much at the last 2/5th of the stage. The traps and
rhomboids take over from there. Not to mention lower back.

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

> Wide grips seem to be the most lat-specific.

Seems so.

But then i would still like to know what the dominant muscle is in NG
pulldowns, *with* the declanation of the torso, as i described many times
before.

Hint;

Its the lats.

Why? Because its NOT the biceps, and certainly not the muscles used for
scapular retraction.

--
Pete