OT: Sooo, re the Roddenberry thread

Can I see a show of hands, please?

All those certifiably insane people so far as "Everyone Iranian is
EEEEEEVIL!" just please raise your hands.

Okay, move to that side.

Now, all those who have the philosophy that every human has some
capacity for evil, but that, generally speaking, they'd prefer to live
their lives peacefully, that is to say without DESTROYING ALL LIFE ON
EARTH, those people raise your hands.

Great. Please move to that side.

So, who didn't raise your hands and why? Was it in the way I phrased
the categories? I guess it's not either or, but the point of view
being offered that it's, something like, "us or them and the time is
now to launch a nuke."

Cohen initiated the thread with a reference to a Star Trek episode.
Has anyone ever enjoyed Rod Serling's "The Monsters Are Due on Maple
Street"? That first season Twilight Zone episode first aired on March
4, 1960.

Especially relevant for those who harbor a certain perspective here,
imo, is the following quote from that episode:

"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and
explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts,
attitudes, prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the
record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a
thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its
own for the children, and the children yet unborn."

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote

<snip drivel>

The radical islamic jihadist terrorists planning your, and my, deaths, get
raging hardons when they read your kind of inane nonsense. They realize this
country has come a long way from FDR and Congress on December 8, 1941, and
that there are no Reagans and Thatchers around, only self destructive fools
who try, as best as they can, to imitate sheep being led to slaughter.

David

Cohen wrote:
[...]

> The radical islamic jihadist terrorists
> planning your, and my, deaths, get
> raging hardons when they read your
> kind of inane nonsense.

I'll remember that the next time a radical islamic jihadist terrorist
comes knocking on my door, okay?

Regardless, that doesn't answer my question:

Do you believe that all Iranians are evil?

Raise your hand or stfu. Thanks.

> They realize this country has come
> a long way from FDR and Congress
> on December 8, 1941, and that there
> are no Reagans and Thatchers around,
> only self destructive fools

Speaking of self destructive fools, Bush's entry into Iraq has done
nothing at all to destabilize that area? Please expound.

> who try, as best as they can, to imitate
> sheep being led to slaughter.
>
> David

Again, stfu. The only sheep being led to the slaughter are,
unfortunately, the 18 and 19 year old servicemembers who, unwittingly,
have helped Iraq become a bridge for Iranian expansionism. Brave
children put in harm's way by our government's choice to overthrow non-
threatening nations just because we can.

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote
> Cohen wrote:
> [...]
>
>> The radical islamic jihadist terrorists
>> planning your, and my, deaths, get
>> raging hardons when they read your
>> kind of inane nonsense.
>
> I'll remember that the next time a radical islamic jihadist terrorist
> comes knocking on my door, okay?

Even sheep aren't that naive. You're raising the bar.

> Regardless, that doesn't answer my question:
>
> Do you believe that all Iranians are evil?
>
> Raise your hand or stfu. Thanks.

Your question, not surprisingly, is irrelevant and unimportant. Doesn't
matter whether one's enemies meet some definition of evil.

>> They realize this country has come
>> a long way from FDR and Congress
>> on December 8, 1941, and that there
>> are no Reagans and Thatchers around,
>> only self destructive fools
>
> Speaking of self destructive fools, Bush's entry into Iraq has done
> nothing at all to destabilize that area? Please expound.

Iraq and Iran are different places, despite sounding similar.

Stick to the topic, or stfu.

>> who try, as best as they can, to imitate
>> sheep being led to slaughter.
>
> Again, stfu. The only sheep being led to the slaughter are,
> unfortunately, the 18 and 19 year old servicemembers who, unwittingly,
> have helped Iraq become a bridge for Iranian expansionism. Brave
> children put in harm's way by our government's choice to overthrow non-
> threatening nations just because we can.

The Mossad just called. They have information that Iran is gonna' nuke you
first, 'cause you piss them off even more than the rest of us infidels.
Apparently, they REALLY hate naive infidels.

David

Cohen wrote:
[...]

re "Do you believe that all Iranians are evil?"

> Your question, not surprisingly, is
> irrelevant and unimportant. Doesn't
> matter whether one's enemies meet
> some definition of evil.

That's right. Naughty or nice, let's treat 'em all the same, eh?

[...]

> The Mossad just called.

They called *you*? Heck, they coulda just talked with me in person
when I was in Tel Aviv back in 1987.

> They have information that Iran is

Iran is more than people desiring to nuke the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_Americans

> gonna' nuke you first,

Cool.

> 'cause you piss them off even more
> than the rest of us infidels.

Cooler.

> Apparently, they REALLY hate
> naive infidels.

Coolest!

> David

http://pawss.hampshire.edu/topics/weapons/nuclear.html

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

> I'll remember that the next time a radical islamic jihadist terrorist
> comes knocking on my door, okay?

Dont you think they did that allready?

> Regardless, that doesn't answer my question:

> Do you believe that all Iranians are evil?

I believe all followers of "islam" are inherently evil. Have you ever tried
to reason with them?

Lets say, just hypothetically speaking of course. Tomorrow, all "muslims"
are dead.

What is this World going to miss? All those "wonderfull" people?

--
Pete

Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
>
> > I'll remember that the next time a radical
> > islamic jihadist terrorist comes knocking
> > on my door, okay?
>
> Dont you think they did that allready?

What, 9/11? Perhaps you're right, Pete, however I wouldn't be at all
surprised that the story's not as cut and dried as some would have
people believe.

> > Regardless, that doesn't answer my question:
> > Do you believe that all Iranians are evil?
>
> I believe all followers of "islam" are inherently evil.

The _all_ in that statement is troublesome for me. Blanket statements,
in general, are difficult for me to endorse fully.

> Have you ever tried to reason with them?

Me? Hey, I don't reason with people, Pete. They give me a hard time? I
draw a picture of a puppy dog for them and their attitude changes for
the better almost immediately. Just one of the benefits of being an
art teacher.

> Lets say, just hypothetically speaking of course.
> Tomorrow, all "muslims" are dead.
>
> What is this World going to miss? All those "wonderfull"
> people?

I hope the world never discovers the answer to that question. For if
any one group is eradicated, then the next group might be targeted.
And the next. And the next. And, yeah, the next, until the world is
left with one Dutch guy who STILL can't get enough sleep.

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> > I'll remember that the next time a radical
>> > islamic jihadist terrorist comes knocking
>> > on my door, okay?

>> Dont you think they did that allready?

> What, 9/11?

Yes. And Madrid and London. The Western World. Innocent Citizens, Curt.

> Perhaps you're right, Pete, however I wouldn't be at all
> surprised that the story's not as cut and dried as some would have
> people believe.

The people who hi-jacked the planes were muslim. On behalf of other muslims,
applauded by muslims around the globe.

>> > Regardless, that doesn't answer my question:
>> > Do you believe that all Iranians are evil?

>> I believe all followers of "islam" are inherently evil.

> The _all_ in that statement is troublesome for me. Blanket statements,
> in general, are difficult for me to endorse fully.

Read the koran. Read the soeras. Maybe that will change your mind.

>> Have you ever tried to reason with them?

> Me? Hey, I don't reason with people, Pete. They give me a hard time? I
> draw a picture of a puppy dog for them and their attitude changes for
> the better almost immediately.

I hope that will work.

>> Lets say, just hypothetically speaking of course.
>> Tomorrow, all "muslims" are dead.

>> What is this World going to miss? All those "wonderfull"
>> people?

> I hope the world never discovers the answer to that question. For if
> any one group is eradicated, then the next group might be targeted.

Who is targetting who?

And why would i attack a "next" group?

> And the next. And the next.

Like who?

Why would i "target" a group at random? Thats really not my nature.

I am very peacefull by nature. As most Dutch people.

> And, yeah, the next, until the world is
> left with one Dutch guy who STILL can't get enough sleep.

Scary picture ;-O

--
Pete

Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
>
> >> > I'll remember that the next time
> >> > a radical islamic jihadist terrorist
> >> > comes knocking on my door, okay?

> >> Dont you think they did that allready?

> > What, 9/11?
>
> Yes. And Madrid and London. The Western
> World. Innocent Citizens, Curt.

Innocent people die each day, unfortunately, however I don't agree
that a large segment of the population should pay for the acts of
extremists.

Timothy McVeigh much? I, for one, am glad no one chose to target
former servicemembers with goofy faces and white skin.

And, according to his Wiki entry, "He and his father were devout Roman
Catholic who often attended daily Mass."

Should anyone blame all Catholics for the act of one extremist?

> > Perhaps you're right, Pete, however I
> > wouldn't be at all surprised that the
> > story's not as cut and dried as some
> > would have people believe.
>
> The people who hi-jacked the planes
> were muslim. On behalf of other muslims,
> applauded by muslims around the globe.

I musta missed that reaction.

http://www.ctkelc.org/islam/News/AmericansDecry.html

> >> > Regardless, that doesn't answer
> >> > my question:
> >> > Do you believe that all Iranians
> >> > are evil?

> >> I believe all followers of "islam" are
> >> inherently evil.

> > The _all_ in that statement is
> > troublesome for me. Blanket
> > statements, in general, are difficult
> > for me to endorse fully.
>
> Read the koran. Read the soeras.
> Maybe that will change your mind.

I might just check out the chapters, Pete.

> >> Have you ever tried to reason with
> >> them?

> > Me? Hey, I don't reason with people,
> > Pete. They give me a hard time? I
> > draw a picture of a puppy dog for them
> > and their attitude changes for the
> > better almost immediately.
>
> I hope that will work.

Where do I send the drawing of the puppy dog?

> >> Lets say, just hypothetically
> >> speaking of course.
> >> Tomorrow, all "muslims" are
> >> dead.
> >> What is this World going to
> >> miss? All those "wonderfull"
> >> people?

> > I hope the world never discovers
> > the answer to that question. For if
> > any one group is eradicated, then
> > the next group might be targeted.
>
> Who is targetting who?

Any group targets those it disagrees with, imo. Perhaps not pointing
nukes at them, but certainly targeting, attacking, attempting to
neutralize them in some manner.

> And why would i attack a "next" group?

Not you specificially, but people in general.

> > And the next. And the next.
>
> Like who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRAs
http://www.google.com/search?q=homosexual+groups http://www.google.com/search?q=jewish+groups
http://www.google.com/search?q=african+american+groups
http://www.google.com/search?q=nascar+race+fans
http://www.google.com/search?q=i+hate+whatever

People hold prejudices for many reasons.

> Why would i "target" a group at random?
> Thats really not my nature.

Not mine either. However, I'm not the one hypothesizing or
questioning:

"What is this World going to miss?"

> I am very peacefull by nature. As
> most Dutch people.

Okay.

> > And, yeah, the next, until the
> > world is left with one Dutch guy
> > who STILL can't get enough sleep.
>
> Scary picture ;-O

I wish you good rest and an annoyance-free life, but not necessarily
that all your dreams come true, Pete.

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> > What, 9/11?

>> Yes. And Madrid and London. The Western
>> World. Innocent Citizens, Curt.

> Innocent people die each day, unfortunately, however I don't agree
> that a large segment of the population should pay for the acts of
> extremists.

The extremists were not born as extremists.

They were muslims.

> Timothy McVeigh much? I, for one, am glad no one chose to target
> former servicemembers with goofy faces and white skin.

> And, according to his Wiki entry, "He and his father were devout Roman
> Catholic who often attended daily Mass."

> Should anyone blame all Catholics for the act of one extremist?

I dont know.

>> > Perhaps you're right, Pete, however I
>> > wouldn't be at all surprised that the
>> > story's not as cut and dried as some
>> > would have people believe.

>> The people who hi-jacked the planes
>> were muslim. On behalf of other muslims,
>> applauded by muslims around the globe.

> I musta missed that reaction.

> http://www.ctkelc.org/islam/News/AmericansDecry.html

>> > The _all_ in that statement is
>> > troublesome for me. Blanket
>> > statements, in general, are difficult
>> > for me to endorse fully.

>> Read the koran. Read the soeras.
>> Maybe that will change your mind.

> I might just check out the chapters, Pete.

Please do.

>> > Me? Hey, I don't reason with people,
>> > Pete. They give me a hard time? I
>> > draw a picture of a puppy dog for them
>> > and their attitude changes for the
>> > better almost immediately.

>> I hope that will work.

> Where do I send the drawing of the puppy dog?

Why dont you send a drawing of "mohammed" having sex with a puppy?

With your name and adress attached to it. See what happens.

>> > I hope the world never discovers
>> > the answer to that question. For if
>> > any one group is eradicated, then
>> > the next group might be targeted.

>> Who is targetting who?

> Any group targets those it disagrees with, imo. Perhaps not pointing
> nukes at them, but certainly targeting, attacking, attempting to
> neutralize them in some manner.

Who is attaking who?

>> And why would i attack a "next" group?

> Not you specificially, but people in general.

Okay.

>> > And the next. And the next.

>> Like who?

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRAs
> http://www.google.com/search?q=homosexual+groups
> http://www.google.com/search?q=jewish+groups
> http://www.google.com/search?q=african+american+groups
> http://www.google.com/search?q=nascar+race+fans
> http://www.google.com/search?q=i+hate+whatever

You are mentioning black people, homosexuals and jews.

What are you implying?

> People hold prejudices for many reasons.

Yes.

Some for religiuos reasons.

>> Why would i "target" a group at random?
>> Thats really not my nature.

> Not mine either. However, I'm not the one hypothesizing or
> questioning:

> "What is this World going to miss?"

Well?

What are we going to miss?

>> I am very peacefull by nature. As
>> most Dutch people.

> Okay.

>> > And, yeah, the next, until the
>> > world is left with one Dutch guy
>> > who STILL can't get enough sleep.

>> Scary picture ;-O

> I wish you good rest and an annoyance-free life, but not necessarily
> that all your dreams come true, Pete.

My dream is that of a peacefull World, where people can express themselves
freely without death threats.

--
Pete

In article <4618af02$0$21107$dbd43001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> > Should anyone blame all Catholics for the act of one extremist?
>
> I dont know.

Catholics have their own reputation to deal with.

Joke: (I think?)

Two priests are in a Vatican bathroom using the urinals.
One of them looks at the other one's penis and notices
there's a "Nicoderm" patch on it. *He looks at the other
priest and says, "I believe you're supposed to put that
patch on your arm or shoulder, not your penis."

The other one replies, "It's working just fine. *I'm down
to two butts a day."
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> Yes. And Madrid and London. The Western
>> World. Innocent Citizens, Curt.

> Innocent people die each day, unfortunately, however I don't agree
> that a large segment of the population should pay for the acts of
> extremists.

"Consider: There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world.
Over 90 percent of these are Islamist groups. Over 90 percent of the current
world fighting involves Islamist terror movements. The vast majority of
world terrorism is religiously motivated by Islam."

"This includes Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Lebanon, Indonesia, all of the
Emirates, Sudan, Philippines, India, Libya, Algeria, Malaysia, Spain,
Morocco, Yemen, Syria, Tunisia, Jordan and, finally, what they call the
"occupied territory" - Israel. Louis Farrakhan is the face of Islam in
America. Is his message one of peace?"



http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html

--

Pete

Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
[...]
> > <snip>I don't agree that a large
> > segment of the population should
> > pay for the acts of extremists.
>
> The extremists were not born as
> extremists.
>
> They were muslims.

No, they were babies. ;o)

Some were born into Muslim families. Some of those Muslims were
approached by or, yes, born into extremist families? Regardless, it's
an outside influence - overall or for the majority, I'm guessing -
that creates those KILLKILLKILL individuals.

Adding that afterthought because, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if
there's a genocide or mass murder gene to be found, although I have no
knowledge of that as a fact.

(glares at Usenet diabolically)

> > Timothy McVeigh much? I, for
> > one, am glad no one chose to target
> > former servicemembers with goofy
> > faces and white skin.

You mention the word "implying" later on. Directly above, I am
implying that I'm a former servicemember with a goofy face and white
(well, actually, kinda blotchy light brown or freckled tan) skin.

[...]
> > Should anyone blame all
> > Catholics for the act of one
> > extremist?
>
> I dont know.

I wouldn't blame all Catholics for the act of one man (and maybe his
former friends or associates). In fact, his Catholicism didn't
necessarily play into his plans. You, it's apparent, are stating that
extreme behavior/actions are directly tied with being Muslim.

I have to believe there's another factor involved. Muslim does not
equal insane killer freakazoid.

[...]

> Why dont you send a drawing
> of "mohammed" having sex with
> a puppy?
>
> With your name and adress
> attached to it. See what happens.

But someone might burn all my cheese.

> > Any group targets those it
> > disagrees with, imo. Perhaps
> > not pointing nukes at them, but
> > certainly targeting, attacking,
> > attempting to neutralize them
> > in some manner.
>
> Who is attaking who?

Given two groups with even slightly different agendas and the
availability of air, then, I'm guessing, and the history books would
back me up on this, I suspect, one is going to attack the other.

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRAs
> >
http://www.google.com/search?q=homosexual+groups
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=jewish+groups
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=african+american+groups
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=nascar+race+fans
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=i+hate+whatever
>
> You are mentioning black people,
> homosexuals and jews.
>
> What are you implying?

Nothing. I'm listing groups of people who have been doused in
prejudice in the past and, hey, the present.

I'm repeating what you've already stated. You have issue with Muslims.
You're a smart and reasonable man. If I'm implying anything, it would
be that, by logical necessity, if you - as a smart and reasonable man
- has a problem with an entire group of people based on their culture,
their religion, their birthright, then others (more than likely LESS
smart and LESS reasonable and, perhaps, with more power and access to
nuclear weapons?) will also have a problem with another entire group.

> > People hold prejudices for many reasons.
>
> Yes.

Yes. And so those people may act on their individual complaints
against ANY group. Those groups listed above and certainly other
groups. And when does it end? Never. Not until that last triumphant(?)
individual accidentally kills himself after destroying everyone else.

A guess.

> Some for religiuos reasons.

Yes.

> > "What is this World going to miss?"
>
> Well?

The opportunity to get along.

> What are we going to miss?

The opportunity to build a bridge instead of a crater?

> > I wish you good rest and an
> > annoyance-free life, but not
> > necessarily that all your dreams
> > come true, Pete.
>
> My dream is that of a peacefull
> World, where people can express
> themselves freely without death
> threats.

A good dream. A valuable goal. In that case, I wish that your dream
comes true, however not at the expense of lives.

--
Curt

Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
[...]
> > I don't agree that a large segment
> > of the population should pay for the
> > acts of extremists.

[...]

> Louis Farrakhan is the face of Islam in
> America. Is his message one of peace?"
>
> http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html

Wiki offers: Farrakhan has referred to Jews, Palestinian Arabs,
Koreans, and Vietnamese collectively as "bloodsuckers" and maintains
that "Murder and lying comes easy for white people."/copy and paste
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Farrakhan

Lots of hate out there, Pete. Lots of discontent. I don't disagree
that you have valid complaints, and I have no illusion that Louis
Farrakhan is itching to give me a big hug and a sloppy kiss, however
just because one man has a problem doesn't mean I'm ready to write off
an entire group.

Pete, I don't have the answer. I'm not even sure of all the questions!
Still, I won't vote for erasing all Muslims for the acts of terrorist
groups.

--
Curt

Pete <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Consider: There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the
> world. Over 90 percent of these are Islamist groups. Over 90
> percent of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror
> movements. The vast majority of world terrorism is religiously
> motivated by Islam."

Generalizations and stereotyping are integral parts of the thinking
process. But they are not where the thinking should stop.

Suppose that crime rates are influenced by two factors
A : {A1, not-A1}, and B : {B1, not-B1}.

E.g. A1 can be: "you regularly ingest a certain substance called A1";
and

B1 can be: "you engage in a certain behavior, called B1"

Now we design a large interventional, randomized, double-blind,
perfectly controlled study, where we assign 50% of participants,
chosen completely at random, to ingest the substance "A1".

We find that people who were assigned to take the A1 are more likely
to engage in criminal acts.

Question:

Is it possible that a second, independent interventional study,
designed as well as the first one, will find a reverse association of
taking A1 with criminal behavior? If yes, how?

The studies can be assumed so large that this problem
has nothing to do with statistics.

"DZ" <28879@1367111744.900314243.28637.3098.18623> wrote
> Pete <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>> "Consider: There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the
>> world. Over 90 percent of these are Islamist groups. Over 90
>> percent of the current world fighting involves Islamist terror
>> movements. The vast majority of world terrorism is religiously
>> motivated by Islam."
>
> Generalizations and stereotyping are integral parts of the thinking
> process. But they are not where the thinking should stop.
>
> Suppose that crime rates are influenced by two factors
> A : {A1, not-A1}, and B : {B1, not-B1}.
>
> E.g. A1 can be: "you regularly ingest a certain substance called A1";
> and
>
> B1 can be: "you engage in a certain behavior, called B1"
>
> Now we design a large interventional, randomized, double-blind,
> perfectly controlled study, where we assign 50% of participants,
> chosen completely at random, to ingest the substance "A1".
>
> We find that people who were assigned to take the A1 are more likely
> to engage in criminal acts.
>
> Question:
>
> Is it possible that a second, independent interventional study,
> designed as well as the first one, will find a reverse association of
> taking A1 with criminal behavior? If yes, how?
>
> The studies can be assumed so large that this problem
> has nothing to do with statistics.

Nuke A1, A2, B1, B2, and any freakin' Cs that open their mouths!



David

Cohen wrote:
> "DZ" wrote
> > Pete wrote:
> >> "Consider: There are about 400
> >> recognized terrorist groups in the
> >> world. Over 90 percent of these
> >> are Islamist groups. Over 90
> >> percent of the current world fighting
> >> involves Islamist terror movements.
> >> The vast majority of world terrorism
> >> is religiously motivated by Islam."
>
> > Generalizations and stereotyping are
> > integral parts of the thinking process.
> > But they are not where the thinking
> > should stop.
>
> > Suppose that crime rates are influenced
> > by two factors A : {A1, not-A1}, and
> > B : {B1, not-B1}. <snip>

> Nuke A1, A2, B1, B2, and any freakin'
> Cs that open their mouths!
>
>
>
> David

I only want to nuke DZ now. My brain hurts after reading all of that
A : {A1, not-A1}, B : {B1, not-B1} schtufff.

..
..
..

i KEED! i KEED!

(Okay, my brain does hurt, but I'll continue to refrain from nuking
anyone just now.)

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> The extremists were not born as
>> extremists.

>> They were muslims.

> No, they were babies. ;o)

And as they grew up, they choose to be muslim? Or didnt they?

> Some were born into Muslim families. Some of those Muslims were
> approached by or, yes, born into extremist families? Regardless, it's
> an outside influence - overall or for the majority, I'm guessing -
> that creates those KILLKILLKILL individuals.

This outside force seem to be more present in muslims than in other people.
Weird.

Dont get fooled into thinking that muslim terrorists are the only problem.
The muslims who are not terrorists are causing more problems here in Europe.

> Adding that afterthought because, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if
> there's a genocide or mass murder gene to be found, although I have no
> knowledge of that as a fact.

Everywhere in Europe, in big Citys where muslims immigrated, there is shit
going on. I am not talking about terrorists. If you want to find shit here,
go to an area where they live. And you will find shit.

Coincedence?

Thats whay most people believed here 10 years ago.

> (glares at Usenet diabolically)

>> > Should anyone blame all
>> > Catholics for the act of one
>> > extremist?

>> I dont know.

> I wouldn't blame all Catholics for the act of one man (and maybe his
> former friends or associates). In fact, his Catholicism didn't
> necessarily play into his plans. You, it's apparent, are stating that
> extreme behavior/actions are directly tied with being Muslim.

Yes i am.

I am not talking about terrorists only. I am talking about millions of
muslims here in Europe.

If i have enough money, i would go to either the US or Australia. Canada is
a bit too cold.
Just like that. And i wont even miss it.

> I have to believe there's another factor involved.

Fair enough.

What factor? Please dont tell me that they are victims of the Evils of
"white" men.

>Muslim does not equal insane killer freakazoid.

I think it does. And i have more inside information about them than most
people realize. I did a little more than googling. The "religion" is
inherently evil, as said so by many who turned their back to itare afraid to
admit that. They are afraid of repercussions.

>> Why dont you send a drawing
>> of "mohammed" having sex with
>> a puppy?

>> With your name and adress
>> attached to it. See what happens.

> But someone might burn all my cheese.

Someone might threaten to kill you and all your beloved ones. And those who
threaten you are not terrorists.

>> > Any group targets those it
>> > disagrees with, imo. Perhaps
>> > not pointing nukes at them, but
>> > certainly targeting, attacking,
>> > attempting to neutralize them
>> > in some manner.

>> Who is attaking who?

> Given two groups with even slightly different agendas and the
> availability of air, then, I'm guessing, and the history books would
> back me up on this, I suspect, one is going to attack the other.

If we go a thousand years back in time, you could see that they were about
to take over Europe. The france stopped them then, and, being nationalistic
as they are, will stop them now.

Just consider yourself lucky you live in the US, and not here.

>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRAs

> http://www.google.com/search?q=homosexual+groups
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=jewish+groups
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=african+american+groups
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=nascar+race+fans
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=i+hate+whatever

>> You are mentioning black people,
>> homosexuals and jews.

>> What are you implying?

> Nothing.

I think you are. You are putting these "poor" muslims in the same category
as Jews, blacks and homosexuals.

And they like it. Are you aware of that? Wether you like it or not,
sub-consciusly, you were thinking about blacks, Jews and homosexuals when
muslims are mentioned.

When i see those groups, i think about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich.

They deported Jews and homosexuals, and had a deep disgust for anything
outside the Caucasian race. Muslims love to hear that. And you did,
sub-conscious probably, exactly what they want. It kinda justfies their
behavior against Europeans, right? I know how these people think Curt,
inside out. Trust me, i do.

History teachers here, and in the United Kingdom, are threatened when they
*try* to teach their students about the holocaust. And they are NOT
threatened by Jews. blacks or homosexuals either!

A comment you frequently hear is;

"Since there are still Jews and homosexuals, Adolf didnt do the job right."

Nice people, eh?

I really dont give a fuck about anyones skin colour or sexual orientation.
And Jews are part of Amsterdam for almost 600 years. They more or less
control the huge Diamond Trade we have here. They also gave us some of the
beat lawyers that can be found in Western Europe.

Weird eh? Jews around here are not complaining, and are quite succesfull.
You wont find large groups of Jewish boys opposing to our society. Or blacks
for that matter. Or homosexuals.

Funny how that works eh?

In every major City here in Western Europe, the shit comes from muslims, not
other "groups."

Whats up with that? Am i missing something? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
I am extremely perceptive. Trust me.

Besides, you cannot choose the color of your skin you are born with. Or your
sexual orientation. But you can chose to be... Oh wait! You cant!

> i am listing groups of people who have been doused in
> prejudice in the past and, hey, the present.

If there is ***ONE*** place in the modern World where blacks, jews and
homosexals are an integral part of the society, its Amsterdam. Second to
none. Even die hard drug addicts are more or less accepted.

But the muslims are the misfits here. How come?

> I'm repeating what you've already stated. You have issue with Muslims.

No.

My entire society has a problem with muslims. I am their spokesperson here
in MFW. Really, i am.

> You're a smart and reasonable man. If I'm implying anything, it would
> be that, by logical necessity, if you - as a smart and reasonable man
> - has a problem with an entire group of people based on their culture,
> their religion, their birthright, then others (more than likely LESS
> smart and LESS reasonable and, perhaps, with more power and access to
> nuclear weapons?) will also have a problem with another entire group.

Again, why would people have problems with other "groups" if they have
problem with muslims?

That doesnt make any sense, and i think it more or less implies that anoyone
who does, is probably quilty of not liking blacks, Jews and homosexuals, and
based on that ***MUST*** be a bigot and a racist.

Makes sense, right?

And you said exactly what they they want you to say. Now they have an excuse
to fuck with our society.

>> > People hold prejudices for many reasons.

>> Yes.

> Yes. And so those people may act on their individual complaints
> against ANY group.

So, it kinda becomes impossible to say anything that opposes to muslims,
right? Who is next?
I think thats nonsense, and kinda prohibits my freedom of speech.

> Those groups listed above and certainly other
> groups. And when does it end?

http://towleroad.typepad.com/towlero...crain_app.html

Why dont you ask Chris?

He is a homosexual from the US that was beat up pretty bad by muslims."

"If you go to Amsterdam be sure you can protect yourself, that this isn,t
allowed in the Netherlands, I advise you to be carefully to go to Amsterdam
where everyday people are beaten or killed, yes also visitors from around
the world, and the police will not help you, yes that are the Netherlands
right now!"

Muslims have a deep disgust for homosexuals and Jews Curt, not the fine
Dutch people. Yes, i said fine. I am arrogant. I have the right to be.

"I was walking through central Amsterdam with my boyfriend back to our
hotel. People were still milling about on the sidewalks from Friday night?s
revelry. We were only blocks from the most popular gay areas; and we were
holding hands. As we passed two men standing on the side of the street, one
of them deliberately spat on us, mainly hitting me in the face. Without
saying a word, we stood our ground. We stopped, turned around, and asked
why. The man, who looked in his 20s, had Moroccan features and spoke with a
heavy accent, murmured something about ?[buggering] [gays].?

Within seconds, the two somehow turned into seven ? and five of them were
ganging up on me, probably because at 6-foot-7 I?m a good bit bigger than my
boyfriend. It seemed like every direction I turned, I got another punch to
the face, and when they kicked me to the ground, time seemed to stop. My
heart still races as I write about it now. It felt like the situation had
spiraled completely out of my control. Then just as quickly as it began, it
was over. I was standing up on my own, and our attackers were fleeing. There
had been dozens of people on the streetcorner, but none of them had acted or
even yelled anything."

Why dont you Chris its not so bad. We would love to hear it, i am, sure.

Why dont you go to a Capital City in North Africa, and count the blacks,
Jews and homosexuals there. And than you come here and do the same.

> Never.

Now what?

We cannot further discuss this, then? Because i want them to leave Western
Europe, i ***MUST*** be prejudiced against other groups, right?

That nonsense has been shoved down our our throat by the lefties ever since
the seventies.

> Not until that last triumphant(?)
> individual accidentally kills himself after destroying everyone else.

No.

> A guess.

You guessed wrong. The muslims have a problem with Jews and homosexuals, not
the fine Dutch people.

>> Some for religiuos reasons.

> Yes.

Right.

>> > "What is this World going to miss?"

>> Well?

> The opportunity to get along.

Haha!

Why would they want to get along with Jews and homosexuals? Please tell me.

>> What are we going to miss?

> The opportunity to build a bridge instead of a crater?

Failed. Failed miserably. We tried that for decades around here Curt. We are
way ahead of you.

It will not WORK !!!

No matter what you say, no matter what you do, birds are going to fly and
fish are going to swim. Its their nature. They wont get along. The Dutch
will stay Dutch, blacks stay black, and the Jews will get richer.

And muslim will stay muslim. And thats the way it is.

Which means you wont find them in the presence of alcohol consuming Dutch,
homosexuals and Jews.

You CANNOT re-write the "koran."

>> > I wish you good rest and an
>> > annoyance-free life, but not
>> > necessarily that all your dreams
>> > come true, Pete.

>> My dream is that of a peacefull
>> World, where people can express
>> themselves freely without death
>> threats.

> A good dream.

Their dream is a World wihout Jews and homosexuals, the very groups YOU
mentioned!

> A valuable goal. In that case, I wish that your dream
> comes true, however not at the expense of lives.

No.

Wont work. Too late allready.

Why dont the Isarealians and "palestines" solve their issues without killing
each other !?!?!?

Birds are going to fly and fish are going to swim.

Simple as that.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.muslimhope.com/IslamReligionOfPeace.htm

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/two_faces.htm

"My friend Bruce Bawer, conservative literary critic and astute commentator,
now lives in Norway and knows northern Europe well. His emails about the
growth of Islamo-fascism get more and more worrying. He gave me permission
to reproduce his latest. Here it is, prompted by a gang of Moroccan youths
who gay-bashed a friend of mine and a leading gay journalist, Chris Crain,
last week, for holding hands with his boyfriend on the street:

I would encourage all responsible-minded people, to get up to speed on
what's going on in the Netherlands, and in Western Europe generally. The
country I cherished a few years ago as the most liberal in the world has an
increasingly large ? and increasingly alienated ? population of extreme
reactionaries who despise, and seek to destroy, its liberalism. It is
frankly stunning that Crain, in his posting, doesn't even mention Pim
Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, who were murdered for daring to take on this
intolerance, or Dutch Parliament members Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders, who
have also spoken out and as a result are forced to live (respectively) on a
Marine base and in a prison in order to avoid being murdered.

One night in December 1998, T. and I were walking along the Singel canal in
central Amsterdam when a Moroccan teenager pulled a knife and demanded
money. (T. saw the knife, but the kid held it so low and so close to me that
I didn't see it.) A half dozen of his friends hovered nearby, at the edge of
the canal, looking threatening. I told him angrily to hit the road. He
hesitated, looked back at his friends, and then they all ran off. We were
lucky. Year by year, it's only got worse. The assaults are more frequent
now, and more likely to be violent. They're less about money now and more
about contempt ? not just toward gays but toward all infidels.

We still visit Amsterdam, but we keep our eyes open. It's a great city ? you
just can?t be na? about what?s going on. We spent a weekend there in March.
We checked into our hotel, went to our room, and I turned on the TV. The
news had just come on (AT5 news, March 24, 8:30 PM). The lead story was
about how Muslim intolerance of homosexuality was making life much worse for
gays in Amsterdam.

But what are the authorities doing about it? What can they do? Half of
Amsterdam's population is of non-Dutch origin. It was recently reported that
40% of Moroccan youths in Amersfoort between ages 15 and 17 were suspected
by the police of criminal activity. The Amersfoort police have files on 21%
of Moroccan youths and 27% of Somali youths. A criminologist said this was
probably representative of the situation nationwide.

As for the cops finding the guys who beat up Chris Crain: I wouldn't be
surprised to learn that they haven?t lifted a finger. They probably thought
he was nuts for confronting the guys. The authorities? traditional policy
is: keep your head down and don?t provoke anybody. In January, two
schoolboys in IJsselstein were ordered to remove Dutch flag patches from
their backpacks because Moroccan students might consider them provocative.
It turned out this flag ban is officially in force at many schools.

Meanwhile Muslim kids have pictures of van Gogh's murderer on their
lunchboxes because they consider him a hero, and nobody dares tell them to
remove those pictures. In a recent article, a teacher at a school in
Amsterdam said that a decade ago, ten-year-old Muslim kids were saying, 'We
Moroccans are going to take over the Netherlands'; now five-year-olds who
can hardly write are scrawling '[bugger] you Netherlands' on scraps of
paper.

Crain quotes Queen Beatrix on intolerance. I'm sure she meant that ethnic
Dutch people are growing more intolerant of Muslims. Some are. My fear has
long been that the Dutch liberal establishment?s unwillingness to confront
Muslim bigotry would feed the rise of anti-Muslim neo-fascism, resulting in
a society split between two extreme rights ? one Muslim and one non-Muslim.
In any case Beatrix?s handling of these matters has been (shall we say)
dismaying. After van Gogh?s murder she refused to attend his funeral or meet
with Hirsi Ali; instead, she went to a Moroccan youth center and made
friendly chitchat. Compare this to Queen Margrethe of Denmark, who in a new
authorized biography addresses these issues head-on, saying 'there are
certain things of which one should not be too tolerant.' Precisely.
Tolerating gays: good. Tolerating intolerance of gays: not good. It ain't
brain surgery.

This is how the new brownshirts are making progress. First they take over
the streets with thuggery. Then they kill politicians. And Europe is -
surprise! - appeasing them. And then I see the president of the United
States holding hands with the Arab dictator whose oil money is financing the
propagation of this fascism. We have been here before. What part of "Never
Again" does Europe not understand?" "

Read that, Curt?

Its even worse. Trust me. No really Trust me. This discussion is not over.

--
Pete

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> The extremists were not born as
>> extremists.

>> They were muslims.

> No, they were babies. ;o)

And as they grew up, they choose to be muslim? Or didnt they?

> Some were born into Muslim families. Some of those Muslims were
> approached by or, yes, born into extremist families? Regardless, it's
> an outside influence - overall or for the majority, I'm guessing -
> that creates those KILLKILLKILL individuals.

This outside force seem to be more present in muslims than in other people.
Weird.

Dont get fooled into thinking that muslim terrorists are the only problem.
The muslims who are not terrorists are causing more problems here in Europe.

> Adding that afterthought because, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if
> there's a genocide or mass murder gene to be found, although I have no
> knowledge of that as a fact.

Everywhere in Europe, in big Citys where muslims immigrated, there is shit
going on. I am not talking about terrorists. If you want to find shit here,
go to an area where they live. And you will find shit.

Coincedence?

Thats whay most people believed here 10 years ago.

> (glares at Usenet diabolically)

>> > Should anyone blame all
>> > Catholics for the act of one
>> > extremist?

>> I dont know.

> I wouldn't blame all Catholics for the act of one man (and maybe his
> former friends or associates). In fact, his Catholicism didn't
> necessarily play into his plans. You, it's apparent, are stating that
> extreme behavior/actions are directly tied with being Muslim.

Yes i am.

I am not talking about terrorists only. I am talking about millions of
muslims here in Europe.

If i have enough money, i would go to either the US or Australia. Canada is
a bit too cold.
Just like that. And i wont even miss it.

> I have to believe there's another factor involved.

Fair enough.

What factor? Please dont tell me that they are victims of the Evils of
"white" men.

>Muslim does not equal insane killer freakazoid.

I think it does. And i have more inside information about them than most
people realize. I did a little more than googling. The "religion" is
inherently evil, as said so by many who turned their back to itare afraid to
admit that. They are afraid of repercussions.

>> Why dont you send a drawing
>> of "mohammed" having sex with
>> a puppy?

>> With your name and adress
>> attached to it. See what happens.

> But someone might burn all my cheese.

Someone might threaten to kill you and all your beloved ones. And those who
threaten you are not terrorists.

>> > Any group targets those it
>> > disagrees with, imo. Perhaps
>> > not pointing nukes at them, but
>> > certainly targeting, attacking,
>> > attempting to neutralize them
>> > in some manner.

>> Who is attaking who?

> Given two groups with even slightly different agendas and the
> availability of air, then, I'm guessing, and the history books would
> back me up on this, I suspect, one is going to attack the other.

If we go a thousand years back in time, you could see that they were about
to take over Europe. The france stopped them then, and, being nationalistic
as they are, will stop them now.

Just consider yourself lucky you live in the US, and not here.

>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRAs

> http://www.google.com/search?q=homosexual+groups
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=jewish+groups
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=african+american+groups
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=nascar+race+fans
>> > http://www.google.com/search?q=i+hate+whatever

>> You are mentioning black people,
>> homosexuals and jews.

>> What are you implying?

> Nothing.

I think you are. You are putting these "poor" muslims in the same category
as Jews, blacks and homosexuals.

And they like it. Are you aware of that? Wether you like it or not,
sub-consciusly, you were thinking about blacks, Jews and homosexuals when
muslims are mentioned.

When i see those groups, i think about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich.

They deported Jews and homosexuals, and had a deep disgust for anything
outside the Caucasian race. Muslims love to hear that. And you did,
sub-conscious probably, exactly what they want. It kinda justfies their
behavior against Europeans, right? I know how these people think Curt,
inside out. Trust me, i do.

History teachers here, and in the United Kingdom, are threatened when they
*try* to teach their students about the holocaust. And they are NOT
threatened by Jews. blacks or homosexuals either!

A comment you frequently hear is;

"Since there are still Jews and homosexuals, Adolf didnt do the job right."

Nice people, eh?

I really dont give a fuck about anyones skin colour or sexual orientation.
And Jews are part of Amsterdam for almost 600 years. They more or less
control the huge Diamond Trade we have here. They also gave us some of the
beat lawyers that can be found in Western Europe.

Weird eh? Jews around here are not complaining, and are quite succesfull.
You wont find large groups of Jewish boys opposing to our society. Or blacks
for that matter. Or homosexuals.

Funny how that works eh?

In every major City here in Western Europe, the shit comes from muslims, not
other "groups."

Whats up with that? Am i missing something? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
I am extremely perceptive. Trust me.

Besides, you cannot choose the color of your skin you are born with. Or your
sexual orientation. But you can chose to be... Oh wait! You cant!

> i am listing groups of people who have been doused in
> prejudice in the past and, hey, the present.

If there is ***ONE*** place in the modern World where blacks, jews and
homosexals are an integral part of the society, its Amsterdam. Second to
none. Even die hard drug addicts are more or less accepted.

But the muslims are the misfits here. How come?

> I'm repeating what you've already stated. You have issue with Muslims.

No.

My entire society has a problem with muslims. I am their spokesperson here
in MFW. Really, i am.

> You're a smart and reasonable man. If I'm implying anything, it would
> be that, by logical necessity, if you - as a smart and reasonable man
> - has a problem with an entire group of people based on their culture,
> their religion, their birthright, then others (more than likely LESS
> smart and LESS reasonable and, perhaps, with more power and access to
> nuclear weapons?) will also have a problem with another entire group.

Again, why would people have problems with other "groups" if they have
problem with muslims?

That doesnt make any sense, and i think it more or less implies that anoyone
who does, is probably quilty of not liking blacks, Jews and homosexuals, and
based on that ***MUST*** be a bigot and a racist.

Makes sense, right?

And you said exactly what they they want you to say. Now they have an excuse
to fuck with our society.

>> > People hold prejudices for many reasons.

>> Yes.

> Yes. And so those people may act on their individual complaints
> against ANY group.

So, it kinda becomes impossible to say anything that opposes to muslims,
right? Who is next?
I think thats nonsense, and kinda prohibits my freedom of speech.

> Those groups listed above and certainly other
> groups. And when does it end?

http://towleroad.typepad.com/towlero...crain_app.html

Why dont you ask Chris?

He is a homosexual from the US that was beat up pretty bad by muslims."

"If you go to Amsterdam be sure you can protect yourself, that this isn,t
allowed in the Netherlands, I advise you to be carefully to go to Amsterdam
where everyday people are beaten or killed, yes also visitors from around
the world, and the police will not help you, yes that are the Netherlands
right now!"

Muslims have a deep disgust for homosexuals and Jews Curt, not the fine
Dutch people. Yes, i said fine. I am arrogant. I have the right to be.

"I was walking through central Amsterdam with my boyfriend back to our
hotel. People were still milling about on the sidewalks from Friday night?s
revelry. We were only blocks from the most popular gay areas; and we were
holding hands. As we passed two men standing on the side of the street, one
of them deliberately spat on us, mainly hitting me in the face. Without
saying a word, we stood our ground. We stopped, turned around, and asked
why. The man, who looked in his 20s, had Moroccan features and spoke with a
heavy accent, murmured something about ?[buggering] [gays].?

Within seconds, the two somehow turned into seven ? and five of them were
ganging up on me, probably because at 6-foot-7 I?m a good bit bigger than my
boyfriend. It seemed like every direction I turned, I got another punch to
the face, and when they kicked me to the ground, time seemed to stop. My
heart still races as I write about it now. It felt like the situation had
spiraled completely out of my control. Then just as quickly as it began, it
was over. I was standing up on my own, and our attackers were fleeing. There
had been dozens of people on the streetcorner, but none of them had acted or
even yelled anything."

Why dont you Chris its not so bad. We would love to hear it, i am, sure.

Why dont you go to a Capital City in North Africa, and count the blacks,
Jews and homosexuals there. And than you come here and do the same.

> Never.

Now what?

We cannot further discuss this, then? Because i want them to leave Western
Europe, i ***MUST*** be prejudiced against other groups, right?

That nonsense has been shoved down our our throat by the lefties ever since
the seventies.

> Not until that last triumphant(?)
> individual accidentally kills himself after destroying everyone else.

No.

> A guess.

You guessed wrong. The muslims have a problem with Jews and homosexuals, not
the fine Dutch people.

>> Some for religiuos reasons.

> Yes.

Right.

>> > "What is this World going to miss?"

>> Well?

> The opportunity to get along.

Haha!

Why would they want to get along with Jews and homosexuals? Please tell me.

>> What are we going to miss?

> The opportunity to build a bridge instead of a crater?

Failed. Failed miserably. We tried that for decades around here Curt. We are
way ahead of you.

It will not WORK !!!

No matter what you say, no matter what you do, birds are going to fly and
fish are going to swim. Its their nature. They wont get along. The Dutch
will stay Dutch, blacks stay black, and the Jews will get richer.

And muslim will stay muslim. And thats the way it is.

Which means you wont find them in the presence of alcohol consuming Dutch,
homosexuals and Jews.

You CANNOT re-write the "koran."

>> > I wish you good rest and an
>> > annoyance-free life, but not
>> > necessarily that all your dreams
>> > come true, Pete.

>> My dream is that of a peacefull
>> World, where people can express
>> themselves freely without death
>> threats.

> A good dream.

Their dream is a World wihout Jews and homosexuals, the very groups YOU
mentioned!

> A valuable goal. In that case, I wish that your dream
> comes true, however not at the expense of lives.

No.

Wont work. Too late allready.

Why dont the Isarealians and "palestines" solve their issues without killing
each other !?!?!?

Birds are going to fly and fish are going to swim.

Simple as that.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.muslimhope.com/IslamReligionOfPeace.htm

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/two_faces.htm

"My friend Bruce Bawer, conservative literary critic and astute commentator,
now lives in Norway and knows northern Europe well. His emails about the
growth of Islamo-fascism get more and more worrying. He gave me permission
to reproduce his latest. Here it is, prompted by a gang of Moroccan youths
who gay-bashed a friend of mine and a leading gay journalist, Chris Crain,
last week, for holding hands with his boyfriend on the street:

I would encourage all responsible-minded people, to get up to speed on
what's going on in the Netherlands, and in Western Europe generally. The
country I cherished a few years ago as the most liberal in the world has an
increasingly large ? and increasingly alienated ? population of extreme
reactionaries who despise, and seek to destroy, its liberalism. It is
frankly stunning that Crain, in his posting, doesn't even mention Pim
Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, who were murdered for daring to take on this
intolerance, or Dutch Parliament members Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders, who
have also spoken out and as a result are forced to live (respectively) on a
Marine base and in a prison in order to avoid being murdered.

One night in December 1998, T. and I were walking along the Singel canal in
central Amsterdam when a Moroccan teenager pulled a knife and demanded
money. (T. saw the knife, but the kid held it so low and so close to me that
I didn't see it.) A half dozen of his friends hovered nearby, at the edge of
the canal, looking threatening. I told him angrily to hit the road. He
hesitated, looked back at his friends, and then they all ran off. We were
lucky. Year by year, it's only got worse. The assaults are more frequent
now, and more likely to be violen