Principles of Weightlifting/Bodybuilding Book?

Hi,


I've been working out for a while, and am now interested in the
principles behind adding mass. Is there a book that goes into the
principles of how mass is added, how particular muscle groups are
worked, the role of eating, etc...? I'd like something in depth, but
still targeted towards a layperson. It's ok if the book also has
routines, but not necessary.

What I'm doing now is trying to get the most out of my routines by
improving my understanding of the principles behind it all.


Thanks in advance.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007, xmp333@yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> I've been working out for a while, and am now interested in the
> principles behind adding mass. Is there a book that goes into the
> principles of how mass is added, how particular muscle groups are
> worked, the role of eating, etc...? I'd like something in depth, but
> still targeted towards a layperson. It's ok if the book also has
> routines, but not necessary.
>
> What I'm doing now is trying to get the most out of my routines by
> improving my understanding of the principles behind it all.
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

They've a lot of books on exrx.net. And a lot of free information as well.

--
Sir Jackery

xmp...@yahoo wrote:
[...]

> What I'm doing now is trying to get the
> most out of my routines by improving my
> understanding of the principles <snip>

Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:

"Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps, short of failure, with 2-4
minutes rest between sets.

I leave the gym in better shapes as when i walk in. A LOT better. I
discovered that this way of training, when i trained at home about 20
years ago, was very productive.

I trained like a powerlifter, its just that i included exercises such
as curls, skullcrushers and a few other isolation movements.

At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds. I trimmed down to 190. On
purpose. Then i started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at first 6
sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the way up to 15 sets. That was
from sept. 93 to march 95

I went from 190 to 250 pounds in 18 months." /copy and paste from the
fine pages of this very newsgroup

Best of luck in your weight training endeavours.

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174164071.487040.232060@l75g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> xmp...@yahoo wrote:
> [...]
>
> > What I'm doing now is trying to get the
> > most out of my routines by improving my
> > understanding of the principles <snip>
>
> Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:
>
> "Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps, short of failure, with 2-4
> minutes rest between sets.
>
> I leave the gym in better shapes as when i walk in. A LOT better. I
> discovered that this way of training, when i trained at home about 20
> years ago, was very productive.
>
> I trained like a powerlifter, its just that i included exercises such
> as curls, skullcrushers and a few other isolation movements.
>
> At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds. I trimmed down to 190. On
> purpose. Then i started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at first 6
> sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the way up to 15 sets. That was
> from sept. 93 to march 95
>
> I went from 190 to 250 pounds in 18 months." /copy and paste from the
> fine pages of this very newsgroup
>
> Best of luck in your weight training endeavours.
>
> --
> Curt

Can quicker gains be made by doing "one exercise a day" as opposed to a full
body workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the rule.. is it not to use the
same muscles for 24 hours, or 48 hours?

Richard

Richard wrote:
> "Curt" wrote
> > xmp...@yahoo wrote:
> > [...]
>
> > > What I'm doing now is trying to get the
> > > most out of my routines by improving my
> > > understanding of the principles <snip>
>
> > Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:
>
> > "Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps,
> > short of failure, with 2-4 minutes rest between
> > sets.
>
[...]

> > At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds.
> > I trimmed down to 190. On purpose. Then i
> > started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at
> > first 6 sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the
> > way up to 15 sets. <snip>

> Can quicker gains be made by doing "one
> exercise a day" as opposed to a full body
> workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the
> rule.. is it not to use the same muscles for
> 24 hours, or 48 hours?

I think the rules include WHATEVER WORKS, honestly.

> Richard

And, again, honestly, I'm not sure what the majority thought is,
however, I'd say that four full-body workouts would be too much for
this body. Ymmv.

I love the idea of an A and B workout alternating between A and B over
a Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine and splitting the body in half -
working one set of muscles or bodyparts during your A workout and then
the other set of muscles/bodyparts during your B workout.

What are you currently doing, again? Yes, a memory like a steel, uh,
sieve? ;o)

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174178116.448607.128410@d57g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
> Richard wrote:
> > "Curt" wrote
> > > xmp...@yahoo wrote:
> > > [...]
> >
> > > > What I'm doing now is trying to get the
> > > > most out of my routines by improving my
> > > > understanding of the principles <snip>
> >
> > > Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:
> >
> > > "Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps,
> > > short of failure, with 2-4 minutes rest between
> > > sets.
> >
> [...]
>
> > > At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds.
> > > I trimmed down to 190. On purpose. Then i
> > > started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at
> > > first 6 sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the
> > > way up to 15 sets. <snip>
>
> > Can quicker gains be made by doing "one
> > exercise a day" as opposed to a full body
> > workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the
> > rule.. is it not to use the same muscles for
> > 24 hours, or 48 hours?
>
> I think the rules include WHATEVER WORKS, honestly.
>
> > Richard
>
> And, again, honestly, I'm not sure what the majority thought is,
> however, I'd say that four full-body workouts would be too much for
> this body. Ymmv.
>
> I love the idea of an A and B workout alternating between A and B over
> a Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine and splitting the body in half -
> working one set of muscles or bodyparts during your A workout and then
> the other set of muscles/bodyparts during your B workout.
>
> What are you currently doing, again? Yes, a memory like a steel, uh,
> sieve? ;o)

I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back one
day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7 days
a week.

in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:

day 1:

Squats 20 reps, 1 set.
alternate 10 reps of that with some other leg exercises.

bench-press warm up, 30 reps 1 set
wide grip chin ups 15 reps, 1 set
bench-press 20 reps 1 set
wide grip chin ups, 10 reps, 1 set, etc. etc. until I can't do more bench
presses

Then I do incline barbell press, alternated with t-bar rows. I keep
incrementing until I fall over and bang my head on something.

Flat dumbbell flyes superset with t-bar rows. Until I'm on gatorade bottle
#3 in my 90^f garage oven here in Arizona.

Then I do weighted parallel bar dips, superset with close-grip chin ups.

That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you call
it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets. Then I do isometric
contraction stuff, and if I'm not dizzy yet (my garage is hot!), then I do
shoulder press with dumbbells, lateral shoulder raises, and lying rear delt
rows. I'm having a problem where the front part of my shoulders are out of
proportion with the back part :-\

Then I alternate seated cable rows with rear pull downs and front pull
downs. Then I finish with shrugs and seated cable neck extensions (I might
give this one up, I've been getting headaches from it).

day 2:

Seated preacher curls, 20 reps 1 set
I alternate these with triceps extensions using a dumbbell, 10 reps, 3 sets.

Next I do incline DB curls, barbell prone incline curls, and preacher cable
curls.

Then I do triceps cable pull downs and bent over triceps cable push downs
(or whatever you call 'em). Next I do weighted dips and kick backs.

Finally I do weighed pull ups and weighted crunches (in one of those
arm-sling things).

I do that 7 days a week.

My gut feeling is that I'm missing some stuff, and I've got to move some
things around. I don't know how I evolved into this type of routine, but I
didn't find it anywhere online. I'd say that its about time I changed a few
things, but its working still.

but i think I might buy one of those portable air conditioners from home
depot. this 90 degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to bother me. Yesterday
it was 99 outside.

Richard


> --
> Curt
>
>

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:14:06 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
wrote:

>"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1174178116.448607.128410@d57g2000hsg.googleg roups.com...
>> Richard wrote:
>> > "Curt" wrote
>> > > xmp...@yahoo wrote:
>> > > [...]
>> >
>> > > > What I'm doing now is trying to get the
>> > > > most out of my routines by improving my
>> > > > understanding of the principles <snip>
>> >
>> > > Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:
>> >
>> > > "Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps,
>> > > short of failure, with 2-4 minutes rest between
>> > > sets.
>> >
>> [...]
>>
>> > > At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds.
>> > > I trimmed down to 190. On purpose. Then i
>> > > started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at
>> > > first 6 sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the
>> > > way up to 15 sets. <snip>
>>
>> > Can quicker gains be made by doing "one
>> > exercise a day" as opposed to a full body
>> > workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the
>> > rule.. is it not to use the same muscles for
>> > 24 hours, or 48 hours?
>>
>> I think the rules include WHATEVER WORKS, honestly.
>>
>> > Richard
>>
>> And, again, honestly, I'm not sure what the majority thought is,
>> however, I'd say that four full-body workouts would be too much for
>> this body. Ymmv.
>>
>> I love the idea of an A and B workout alternating between A and B over
>> a Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine and splitting the body in half -
>> working one set of muscles or bodyparts during your A workout and then
>> the other set of muscles/bodyparts during your B workout.
>>
>> What are you currently doing, again? Yes, a memory like a steel, uh,
>> sieve? ;o)
>
>I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back one
>day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7 days
>a week.
>
>in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:
>
>day 1:
>
>Squats 20 reps, 1 set.
>alternate 10 reps of that with some other leg exercises.
>
>bench-press warm up, 30 reps 1 set
>wide grip chin ups 15 reps, 1 set
>bench-press 20 reps 1 set
>wide grip chin ups, 10 reps, 1 set, etc. etc. until I can't do more bench
>presses
>
>Then I do incline barbell press, alternated with t-bar rows. I keep
>incrementing until I fall over and bang my head on something.
>
>Flat dumbbell flyes superset with t-bar rows. Until I'm on gatorade bottle
>#3 in my 90^f garage oven here in Arizona.
>
>Then I do weighted parallel bar dips, superset with close-grip chin ups.
>
>That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you call
>it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets. Then I do isometric
>contraction stuff, and if I'm not dizzy yet (my garage is hot!), then I do
>shoulder press with dumbbells, lateral shoulder raises, and lying rear delt
>rows. I'm having a problem where the front part of my shoulders are out of
>proportion with the back part :-\
>
>Then I alternate seated cable rows with rear pull downs and front pull
>downs. Then I finish with shrugs and seated cable neck extensions (I might
>give this one up, I've been getting headaches from it).
>
>day 2:
>
>Seated preacher curls, 20 reps 1 set
>I alternate these with triceps extensions using a dumbbell, 10 reps, 3 sets.
>
>Next I do incline DB curls, barbell prone incline curls, and preacher cable
>curls.
>
>Then I do triceps cable pull downs and bent over triceps cable push downs
>(or whatever you call 'em). Next I do weighted dips and kick backs.
>
>Finally I do weighed pull ups and weighted crunches (in one of those
>arm-sling things).
>
>I do that 7 days a week.
>
>My gut feeling is that I'm missing some stuff, and I've got to move some
>things around. I don't know how I evolved into this type of routine, but I
>didn't find it anywhere online. I'd say that its about time I changed a few
>things, but its working still.

That does sound like an odd routine. I think the only thing keeping
you going is the high reps.

>but i think I might buy one of those portable air conditioners from home
>depot. this 90 degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to bother me. Yesterday
>it was 99 outside.

Yesterday they sent us home early because of a snow blizzard.

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news0hpv2hpl3orb33jf24f6namql3qsjdvlk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:14:06 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
> wrote:
>
> >"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1174178116.448607.128410@d57g2000hsg.googleg roups.com...
> >> Richard wrote:
> >> > "Curt" wrote
> >> > > xmp...@yahoo wrote:
> >> > > [...]
> >> >
> >> > > > What I'm doing now is trying to get the
> >> > > > most out of my routines by improving my
> >> > > > understanding of the principles <snip>
> >> >
> >> > > Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:
> >> >
> >> > > "Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps,
> >> > > short of failure, with 2-4 minutes rest between
> >> > > sets.
> >> >
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> > > At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds.
> >> > > I trimmed down to 190. On purpose. Then i
> >> > > started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at
> >> > > first 6 sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the
> >> > > way up to 15 sets. <snip>
> >>
> >> > Can quicker gains be made by doing "one
> >> > exercise a day" as opposed to a full body
> >> > workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the
> >> > rule.. is it not to use the same muscles for
> >> > 24 hours, or 48 hours?
> >>
> >> I think the rules include WHATEVER WORKS, honestly.
> >>
> >> > Richard
> >>
> >> And, again, honestly, I'm not sure what the majority thought is,
> >> however, I'd say that four full-body workouts would be too much for
> >> this body. Ymmv.
> >>
> >> I love the idea of an A and B workout alternating between A and B over
> >> a Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine and splitting the body in half -
> >> working one set of muscles or bodyparts during your A workout and then
> >> the other set of muscles/bodyparts during your B workout.
> >>
> >> What are you currently doing, again? Yes, a memory like a steel, uh,
> >> sieve? ;o)
> >
> >I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back one
> >day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7
days
> >a week.
> >
> >in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:
> >
> >day 1:
> >
> >Squats 20 reps, 1 set.
> >alternate 10 reps of that with some other leg exercises.
> >
> >bench-press warm up, 30 reps 1 set
> >wide grip chin ups 15 reps, 1 set
> >bench-press 20 reps 1 set
> >wide grip chin ups, 10 reps, 1 set, etc. etc. until I can't do more bench
> >presses
> >
> >Then I do incline barbell press, alternated with t-bar rows. I keep
> >incrementing until I fall over and bang my head on something.
> >
> >Flat dumbbell flyes superset with t-bar rows. Until I'm on gatorade
bottle
> >#3 in my 90^f garage oven here in Arizona.
> >
> >Then I do weighted parallel bar dips, superset with close-grip chin ups.
> >
> >That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you
call
> >it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets. Then I do isometric
> >contraction stuff, and if I'm not dizzy yet (my garage is hot!), then I
do
> >shoulder press with dumbbells, lateral shoulder raises, and lying rear
delt
> >rows. I'm having a problem where the front part of my shoulders are out
of
> >proportion with the back part :-\
> >
> >Then I alternate seated cable rows with rear pull downs and front pull
> >downs. Then I finish with shrugs and seated cable neck extensions (I
might
> >give this one up, I've been getting headaches from it).
> >
> >day 2:
> >
> >Seated preacher curls, 20 reps 1 set
> >I alternate these with triceps extensions using a dumbbell, 10 reps, 3
sets.
> >
> >Next I do incline DB curls, barbell prone incline curls, and preacher
cable
> >curls.
> >
> >Then I do triceps cable pull downs and bent over triceps cable push downs
> >(or whatever you call 'em). Next I do weighted dips and kick backs.
> >
> >Finally I do weighed pull ups and weighted crunches (in one of those
> >arm-sling things).
> >
> >I do that 7 days a week.
> >
> >My gut feeling is that I'm missing some stuff, and I've got to move some
> >things around. I don't know how I evolved into this type of routine, but
I
> >didn't find it anywhere online. I'd say that its about time I changed a
few
> >things, but its working still.
>
> That does sound like an odd routine. I think the only thing keeping
> you going is the high reps.

Maybe that's it.

> >but i think I might buy one of those portable air conditioners from home
> >depot. this 90 degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to bother me.
Yesterday
> >it was 99 outside.
>
> Yesterday they sent us home early because of a snow blizzard.

A BLIZZARD!? I can't even eat a fricken ice cream cone.. by the time Mc
Donalds handed it to me, it melted down the side of my car!!! I shouldn't be
eating the crap anyway. Enjoy your blizzard! Wish I were there.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:12:45 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
wrote:

>"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1174164071.487040.232060@l75g2000hse.googleg roups.com...
>> xmp...@yahoo wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> > What I'm doing now is trying to get the
>> > most out of my routines by improving my
>> > understanding of the principles <snip>
>>
>> Check out Pete's Principles of Pumping Iron:
>>
>> "Straight sets, about 4-6 with 5-10 reps, short of failure, with 2-4
>> minutes rest between sets.
>>
>> I leave the gym in better shapes as when i walk in. A LOT better. I
>> discovered that this way of training, when i trained at home about 20
>> years ago, was very productive.
>>
>> I trained like a powerlifter, its just that i included exercises such
>> as curls, skullcrushers and a few other isolation movements.
>>
>> At the age of 28, i was aprox. 210 pounds. I trimmed down to 190. On
>> purpose. Then i started to train heavy, one exercise a day, at first 6
>> sets of 6 reps. Later that was all the way up to 15 sets. That was
>> from sept. 93 to march 95
>>
>> I went from 190 to 250 pounds in 18 months." /copy and paste from the
>> fine pages of this very newsgroup
>>
>> Best of luck in your weight training endeavours.
>>
>> --
>> Curt
>
>Can quicker gains be made by doing "one exercise a day" as opposed to a full
>body workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the rule.. is it not to use the
>same muscles for 24 hours, or 48 hours?

Full body workouts's usually lose their effectiveness once a person
moves past the beginner stages. Most people want to do more stuff
with heavier weights so it makes more sense to split it up. I am not
sure what 6-7 exercises Pete was doing to get it down to only one per
day. I have never tried doing many sets like that in a single day
but it is an interesting approach.

On Mar 17, 8:14 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
> "Curt" <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back one
> day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7 days
> a week.
>
> in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:

If you're trying to build mass, I'd say you are overtraining. Working
out 7 days a week is too much for the majority of weight trainers.
For many 2 or three days a week of training is more than enough.
Maybe you've already built a lot of mass and don't want to increase it
anymore.

But if you're trying to increase your muscle mass it seems like you
are overtraining. Even if you're not you are overtraining. And the
way you have it split up, you are really training what you describe as
"everything else" (bicepts, triceps) 7 days a week (not 3 or 4),
assuming you are training your chest, shoulders, and back correctly,
since your triceps and biceps would be stimulated by the chest,
shoulders, and back workouts.

If you consider yourself a hardgainer and are a beginner or
intermediate, I'd suggest getting "Beyond Brawn" by Stuart McRobert.

> That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you call
> it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets.

If you're referring to the Pec Deck, then in my opinion 5 sets is a
complete waste of time, based on the work you've already completed
before beginning that exercise, if you're trying to build mass. More
is not always better.


Ken

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:04:19 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
wrote:

>"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news0hpv2hpl3orb33jf24f6namql3qsjdvlk@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:14:06 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
>> wrote:

>> >but i think I might buy one of those portable air conditioners from home
>> >depot. this 90 degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to bother me.
>Yesterday
>> >it was 99 outside.
>>
>> Yesterday they sent us home early because of a snow blizzard.
>
>A BLIZZARD!? I can't even eat a fricken ice cream cone.. by the time Mc
>Donalds handed it to me, it melted down the side of my car!!! I shouldn't be
>eating the crap anyway. Enjoy your blizzard! Wish I were there.

We got at least 8 inches of snow yesterday. The top was crusted with
ice and I had to smash through it before I could shovel it off the
car. Last week it was 70 degrees and the week before that it was a
below zero wind chill. The weather has been pretty strange this year.

Where do live that it is that hot this time of year? I sometimes
travel in the winter but I have never seen it get past 80 any place I
went. My parents are in the Florida Keys and they said it was a bit
cold this year. I guess the wind off the water makes a difference.

On 17 Mar 2007 21:19:31 -0700, "Ken" <Omaha8_Beach@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mar 17, 8:14 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
>> "Curt" <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back one
>> day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7 days
>> a week.
>>
>> in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:
>
>If you're trying to build mass, I'd say you are overtraining. Working
>out 7 days a week is too much for the majority of weight trainers.
>For many 2 or three days a week of training is more than enough.
>Maybe you've already built a lot of mass and don't want to increase it
>anymore.
>
>But if you're trying to increase your muscle mass it seems like you
>are overtraining. Even if you're not you are overtraining. And the
>way you have it split up, you are really training what you describe as
>"everything else" (bicepts, triceps) 7 days a week (not 3 or 4),
>assuming you are training your chest, shoulders, and back correctly,
>since your triceps and biceps would be stimulated by the chest,
>shoulders, and back workouts.
>
>If you consider yourself a hardgainer and are a beginner or
>intermediate, I'd suggest getting "Beyond Brawn" by Stuart McRobert.
>
>> That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you call
>> it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets.
>
>If you're referring to the Pec Deck, then in my opinion 5 sets is a
>complete waste of time, based on the work you've already completed
>before beginning that exercise, if you're trying to build mass. More
>is not always better.

Many of the all time greats worked out 6 days a week. I feel guilty
if I only get in 1-2 days in a week. I think 2 is a bare minimum and
3-4 is better. If you split it up right you can get by on 6-7 without
overstraining. I think Richard is getting by on high reps and a
number of light sets. I know when I ramped the weight up I had to cut
my workouts way back.

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:g7lpv254c2429ffgb8vdk9ae4p73dudjc2@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:04:19 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
> wrote:
>
> >"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news0hpv2hpl3orb33jf24f6namql3qsjdvlk@4ax.com.. .
> >> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:14:06 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >but i think I might buy one of those portable air conditioners from
home
> >> >depot. this 90 degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to bother me.
> >Yesterday
> >> >it was 99 outside.
> >>
> >> Yesterday they sent us home early because of a snow blizzard.
> >
> >A BLIZZARD!? I can't even eat a fricken ice cream cone.. by the time Mc
> >Donalds handed it to me, it melted down the side of my car!!! I shouldn't
be
> >eating the crap anyway. Enjoy your blizzard! Wish I were there.
>
> We got at least 8 inches of snow yesterday. The top was crusted with
> ice and I had to smash through it before I could shovel it off the
> car. Last week it was 70 degrees and the week before that it was a
> below zero wind chill. The weather has been pretty strange this year.
>
> Where do live that it is that hot this time of year? I sometimes
> travel in the winter but I have never seen it get past 80 any place I
> went. My parents are in the Florida Keys and they said it was a bit
> cold this year. I guess the wind off the water makes a difference.

What a dramatic change in temperatures! Maybe global warming has to do with
it. Here in Phoenix, its always as hot as hell though - even in the dead of
winter.

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:iolpv2pv2ttf7lhe3e6h619q0jlmkvlmf9@4ax.com...
> On 17 Mar 2007 21:19:31 -0700, "Ken" <Omaha8_Beach@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 17, 8:14 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
> >> "Curt" <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back
one
> >> day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7
days
> >> a week.
> >>
> >> in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:
> >
> >If you're trying to build mass, I'd say you are overtraining. Working
> >out 7 days a week is too much for the majority of weight trainers.
> >For many 2 or three days a week of training is more than enough.
> >Maybe you've already built a lot of mass and don't want to increase it
> >anymore.
> >
> >But if you're trying to increase your muscle mass it seems like you
> >are overtraining. Even if you're not you are overtraining. And the
> >way you have it split up, you are really training what you describe as
> >"everything else" (bicepts, triceps) 7 days a week (not 3 or 4),
> >assuming you are training your chest, shoulders, and back correctly,
> >since your triceps and biceps would be stimulated by the chest,
> >shoulders, and back workouts.
> >
> >If you consider yourself a hardgainer and are a beginner or
> >intermediate, I'd suggest getting "Beyond Brawn" by Stuart McRobert.
> >
> >> That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you
call
> >> it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets.
> >
> >If you're referring to the Pec Deck, then in my opinion 5 sets is a
> >complete waste of time, based on the work you've already completed
> >before beginning that exercise, if you're trying to build mass. More
> >is not always better.
>
> Many of the all time greats worked out 6 days a week. I feel guilty
> if I only get in 1-2 days in a week. I think 2 is a bare minimum and
> 3-4 is better. If you split it up right you can get by on 6-7 without
> overstraining. I think Richard is getting by on high reps and a
> number of light sets. I know when I ramped the weight up I had to cut
> my workouts way back.

Maybe I'm overtraining, but still seeing progress. I'm noticing a small
immune system problem and lack of motivation. Signs of overtraining I
suppose. The chest workout is the same one that Ahnold used for 5 years. He
trained 6 days a week with it split up like that. I'm using weights that I
find heavy for me. The db flyes are 70lb dumbbells, pec machine gets loaded
with 210lb, and I use about 50lb for weighted wide-grip chin-ups. That day
is difficult. The next day (biceps, triceps, etc.) is a lot easier, but
still using what I call heavy weights (for my size at 170lb). The db
extensions are 75lb dumbbells, 110lb barbell curls, 70lb dumbbell curls,
etc. etc. The real problem I'm having is getting enough food... cause my
appetite should be much greater, but I'm finding it hard to force feed
myself even 3500 calories a day. Not sure why I don't have a good appetite.
I'm losing a lot of bodyfat and I'm not getting enough food.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:48:39 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
wrote:

>"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:g7lpv254c2429ffgb8vdk9ae4p73dudjc2@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:04:19 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> >news0hpv2hpl3orb33jf24f6namql3qsjdvlk@4ax.com.. .
>> >> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:14:06 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >but i think I might buy one of those portable air conditioners from
>home
>> >> >depot. this 90 degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to bother me.
>> >Yesterday
>> >> >it was 99 outside.
>> >>
>> >> Yesterday they sent us home early because of a snow blizzard.
>> >
>> >A BLIZZARD!? I can't even eat a fricken ice cream cone.. by the time Mc
>> >Donalds handed it to me, it melted down the side of my car!!! I shouldn't
>be
>> >eating the crap anyway. Enjoy your blizzard! Wish I were there.
>>
>> We got at least 8 inches of snow yesterday. The top was crusted with
>> ice and I had to smash through it before I could shovel it off the
>> car. Last week it was 70 degrees and the week before that it was a
>> below zero wind chill. The weather has been pretty strange this year.
>>
>> Where do live that it is that hot this time of year? I sometimes
>> travel in the winter but I have never seen it get past 80 any place I
>> went. My parents are in the Florida Keys and they said it was a bit
>> cold this year. I guess the wind off the water makes a difference.
>
>What a dramatic change in temperatures! Maybe global warming has to do with
>it. Here in Phoenix, its always as hot as hell though - even in the dead of
>winter.

I know. I wondered if other parts of the world where experiencing
anything similar. This is the warmest winter I recall in my entire
life. I think it was December before I even put a winter coat on. I
have an aunt that lives near Tucson. I don't recall her saying it
ever got that hot. She had a lot of breathing problems and allergies
as a kid and the change was good. Out there you get dry heat but
around here it can get very humid. I remember asking a kid on a
plane from South America what he thought after spending the summer in
Massachusetts. He said it was too hot and couldn't wait to get home.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 00:00:30 -0700, "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain>
wrote:

>"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:iolpv2pv2ttf7lhe3e6h619q0jlmkvlmf9@4ax.com.. .
>> On 17 Mar 2007 21:19:31 -0700, "Ken" <Omaha8_Beach@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mar 17, 8:14 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
>> >> "Curt" <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> I've been doing that, sort of. I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back
>one
>> >> day, and everything else (biceps, triceps, abs, etc.) the other day - 7
>days
>> >> a week.
>> >>
>> >> in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:
>> >
>> >If you're trying to build mass, I'd say you are overtraining. Working
>> >out 7 days a week is too much for the majority of weight trainers.
>> >For many 2 or three days a week of training is more than enough.
>> >Maybe you've already built a lot of mass and don't want to increase it
>> >anymore.
>> >
>> >But if you're trying to increase your muscle mass it seems like you
>> >are overtraining. Even if you're not you are overtraining. And the
>> >way you have it split up, you are really training what you describe as
>> >"everything else" (bicepts, triceps) 7 days a week (not 3 or 4),
>> >assuming you are training your chest, shoulders, and back correctly,
>> >since your triceps and biceps would be stimulated by the chest,
>> >shoulders, and back workouts.
>> >
>> >If you consider yourself a hardgainer and are a beginner or
>> >intermediate, I'd suggest getting "Beyond Brawn" by Stuart McRobert.
>> >
>> >> That's about 40 minutes so far. Then I use a pec machine (whatever you
>call
>> >> it) - I do 8 reps (all I can do) for about 5 sets.
>> >
>> >If you're referring to the Pec Deck, then in my opinion 5 sets is a
>> >complete waste of time, based on the work you've already completed
>> >before beginning that exercise, if you're trying to build mass. More
>> >is not always better.
>>
>> Many of the all time greats worked out 6 days a week. I feel guilty
>> if I only get in 1-2 days in a week. I think 2 is a bare minimum and
>> 3-4 is better. If you split it up right you can get by on 6-7 without
>> overstraining. I think Richard is getting by on high reps and a
>> number of light sets. I know when I ramped the weight up I had to cut
>> my workouts way back.
>
>Maybe I'm overtraining, but still seeing progress. I'm noticing a small
>immune system problem and lack of motivation. Signs of overtraining I
>suppose. The chest workout is the same one that Ahnold used for 5 years. He
>trained 6 days a week with it split up like that. I'm using weights that I
>find heavy for me. The db flyes are 70lb dumbbells, pec machine gets loaded
>with 210lb, and I use about 50lb for weighted wide-grip chin-ups. That day
>is difficult. The next day (biceps, triceps, etc.) is a lot easier, but
>still using what I call heavy weights (for my size at 170lb). The db
>extensions are 75lb dumbbells, 110lb barbell curls, 70lb dumbbell curls,
>etc. etc. The real problem I'm having is getting enough food... cause my
>appetite should be much greater, but I'm finding it hard to force feed
>myself even 3500 calories a day. Not sure why I don't have a good appetite.
>I'm losing a lot of bodyfat and I'm not getting enough food.

I didn't mean to imply you where not working out hard. Last summer I
was doing 6-7 exercises per day and then running cardio for 30-40
minutes after. A few months ago I switched to strength programs using
lots of very low reps like 1-6. My strength increased very fast but I
can only do about 3 exercises a day before I lack energy. And I can't
seem to return very quickly either. I am switching to something
different next week and I will see if things go back to normal again.

There are probably too many factors involved to strictly define
overtraining. I think if you are still making progress you are
probably fine. With what you are seeing you might just need to take a
few days off each month.

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> schreef:

>>Can quicker gains be made by doing "one exercise a day" as opposed to a
>>full
>>body workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the rule.. is it not to use
>>the
>>same muscles for 24 hours, or 48 hours?

> Full body workouts's usually lose their effectiveness once a person
> moves past the beginner stages. Most people want to do more stuff
> with heavier weights so it makes more sense to split it up. I am not
> sure what 6-7 exercises Pete was doing to get it down to only one per
> day. I have never tried doing many sets like that in a single day
> but it is an interesting approach.

Low inclines
Barbell/dumbell rows
Overheads
Pullups
Curls
Skullcrushers

Day 7 i did situps, leg raises and standing calf raises.

Keep in mind that after a brief warmup, i did 6-15 heavy sets. I started out
with 6, and worked my way up to 15 sets.
Reps where 6, but i increased on some of the exercises to 8. 10 perhaps.

And i ate 5000 Kcals/.day.

And i was younger then.

And i wasnt chronically fatiqued.

And i lived alone.

And i didnt work.

So i could fully focus on my diet and workouts. THAT really makes a
difference. No distraction.

For most people, this type of workout would be considered boring. It wasnt
for me. I always looked forward to my next workout. Also, i ride my bicycle
every night for an hour or so. Moderate pace. Maybe that helped recovery.

Also, i was never inspired by guys like Zane. Or Bannout Yeah, sure, great
lines and all that, but do you know what happens to those lines after the
diuretics wear off? There is not much left. Sure, the symmetry is still
there, but then again, a person with matchstick legs AND arms is also
symmetrical.

I liked Sergio, Arnold and Haney. Not to mention Bertil and several NABBA
monsters.
You really shouldnt underestimate motivation/inspiration.

Watching Gary Taylor defenitely helped. Or Hoeberl. And the other guys.

I still watch Pumping Iron. I have 30 or so vids on my hard drive, but i
rarely watch them. From Coleman to Levrone and Dorian to Lee Priest.

Coleman is very impressive, and the weights are awesome, but he talks
nonsense. Really, he does.

Haney is more or less the only one i watch, besides Arnold.

Also, find ways to reward yourself after a grueling intense workout. Sounds
childish, yes, but those subtle things help you going.

--
Pete

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:07:13 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> schreef:
>
>>>Can quicker gains be made by doing "one exercise a day" as opposed to a
>>>full
>>>body workout 4 times a week? Curious. What's the rule.. is it not to use
>>>the
>>>same muscles for 24 hours, or 48 hours?
>
>> Full body workouts's usually lose their effectiveness once a person
>> moves past the beginner stages. Most people want to do more stuff
>> with heavier weights so it makes more sense to split it up. I am not
>> sure what 6-7 exercises Pete was doing to get it down to only one per
>> day. I have never tried doing many sets like that in a single day
>> but it is an interesting approach.
>
>Low inclines
>Barbell/dumbell rows
>Overheads
>Pullups
>Curls
>Skullcrushers
>
>Day 7 i did situps, leg raises and standing calf raises.

I assume the incline is benching. So no upper leg work?

>Keep in mind that after a brief warmup, i did 6-15 heavy sets. I started out
>with 6, and worked my way up to 15 sets.
>Reps where 6, but i increased on some of the exercises to 8. 10 perhaps.

Yeah I got that part. That was what sounded interesting. It can give
you a chance to really focus on that particular exercise.

>And i ate 5000 Kcals/.day.

No weight problems? I seem to just get fat when I up the calorie
intake.

>And i was younger then.

It seemed so much easier back then.

>And i wasnt chronically fatiqued.
>
>And i lived alone.
>
>And i didnt work.
>
>So i could fully focus on my diet and workouts. THAT really makes a
>difference. No distraction.

I just spent a number of months out of work. It really was great for
focusing on working out. I had no stress and I ate healthier because I
prepared every meal.

>For most people, this type of workout would be considered boring. It wasnt
>for me. I always looked forward to my next workout. Also, i ride my bicycle
>every night for an hour or so. Moderate pace. Maybe that helped recovery.
>
>Also, i was never inspired by guys like Zane. Or Bannout Yeah, sure, great
>lines and all that, but do you know what happens to those lines after the
>diuretics wear off? There is not much left. Sure, the symmetry is still
>there, but then again, a person with matchstick legs AND arms is also
>symmetrical.
>
>I liked Sergio, Arnold and Haney. Not to mention Bertil and several NABBA
>monsters.
>You really shouldnt underestimate motivation/inspiration.
>
>Watching Gary Taylor defenitely helped. Or Hoeberl. And the other guys.
>
>I still watch Pumping Iron. I have 30 or so vids on my hard drive, but i
>rarely watch them. From Coleman to Levrone and Dorian to Lee Priest.
>
>Coleman is very impressive, and the weights are awesome, but he talks
>nonsense. Really, he does.
>
>Haney is more or less the only one i watch, besides Arnold.
>
>Also, find ways to reward yourself after a grueling intense workout. Sounds
>childish, yes, but those subtle things help you going.

Arnold has been an inspiration to me since childhood. And not just
with the weights. I think bodybuilding has gotten freakish over the
years with the steroid use and spray on tans. The competition is
fierce because only the top guys make any money at the sport. I
should probably get that Pumping Iron movie. Just watching the guys
workout is probably more fun. I picked up a mag recently with a lot of
old Arnold photos. There was one in there with him doing donkey calve
raises with two huge guys on his back.

Richard wrote:
[...]

> I'm doing chest, shoulders, legs, back one
> day, and everything else (biceps, triceps,
> abs, etc.) the other day - 7 days a week.
>
> in fact if you have a minute, I'm doing this:

[...]

Zoinks! That took juuuust a while longer than a minute to read,
Richard.

> Until I'm on gatorade bottle #3 in my 90^f
> garage oven <snip>

heh )

Garage oven, eh? Well, I'm looking at snow right now. Guess the grass
is always greener, eh? Uh, hold on. You've got a stone lawn, right?
And my lawn is brown and covered in the frozen schtufff, so I suppose
the grass ISN'T always... never mind.

> <snip> (my garage is hot!), <snip>

> I do that 7 days a week.

Um, did I already mention "ZOINKS!"?

> My gut feeling is that I'm missing some stuff,

Actually, it seems you've covered every exercise in Arnold's
Encyclopedia.

> <snip> I don't know how I evolved into this
> type of routine, but I didn't find it anywhere
> online. I'd say that its about time I changed
> a few things, but its working still.

That's the important thing, yes? It is still working.

I was going to say that your routine sounds like overkill or a bit
much, but as long as it's still working - by that, I'm assuming, you
mean you're still making progress - then why not stick with it?

Otoh, I believe I've read some recommend that you change your workouts
up every six to eight weeks to keep things fresh. Not sure if that's
necessary, but it might keep boredom and that lack of motivation from
setting in, imo.

> but i think I might buy one of those portable
> air conditioners from home depot. this 90
> degree Fahrenheit garage is starting to
> bother me.

I noticed that. )

> Yesterday it was 99 outside.

My neck of the woods mighta hit 39.

> Richard

--
Curt

Richard wrote:
[...]

> The real problem I'm having is getting
> enough food... cause my appetite should
> be much greater, but I'm finding it hard to
> force feed myself even 3500 calories a
> day. Not sure why I don't have a good
> appetite. I'm losing a lot of bodyfat and
> I'm not getting enough food.

The good folk at Animal Pak recommended the Wendy's and Burger King
approach (recently espoused by Pete and Schuh if I interpreted all
that correctly). One triple cheeseburger can pack on some calories
mighty quick.

Has anyone recommended blender drinks to you as a possibly healthier
alternative? You can drink a thousand calories a lot quicker than you
can eat them.

So, arm yourself with a between-meals milkshake or smoothie:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...ilding&spell=1
aka http://tinyurl.com/2f6s5w

--
Curt

Pete wrote:

> Low inclines
> Barbell/dumbell rows
> Overheads
> Pullups
> Curls
> Skullcrushers
>
> Day 7 i did situps, leg raises and standing
> calf raises.

-=snipped the good info=-

> Also, i ride my bicycle every night for an
> hour or so. Moderate pace. Maybe that
> helped recovery.

I've added all that to my Pete Library of Fitness Facts. Thanks.

> Also, i was never inspired by guys like
> Zane. Or Bannout Yeah, sure, great

Iirc, Zane was in a beer commercial a millions years ago as an Oly
lifter. He looked hella impressive in that. I'd never heard of Bannout
until I saw a pic of him in Lurie's Muscle Training Illustrated. He
seemingly popped out of nowhere. Definitely someone who set the trend
for the Christmas tree, or do I have that wrong?

> lines and all that, but do you know what
> happens to those lines after the diuretics
> wear off? There is not much left. Sure, the
> symmetry is still there, but then again, a
> person with matchstick legs AND arms
> is also symmetrical.

Hey, without the matchstick brigage, why, the monsters wouldn't be
nearly as impressive by comparison!

> I liked Sergio, Arnold and Haney. Not to
> mention Bertil and several NABBA
> monsters.

And re Haney, I'm looking at mesomorphosis.com in another browser.
Does Haney have anything on DVD? I remember owning one of his videos
back in the day. He and Ty Felder working out. Haney is a speaker, for
sure. Entertaining and informative.

http://www.leehaney.com/

His website offers a "remastered workout DVD" as part of his Lee
Haney's Competitive Mass Series.

At $115 bucks for the kit, I'm not sure I'll be making that purchase
anytime soon, if ever.

> You really shouldnt underestimate
> motivation/inspiration.
>
> Watching Gary Taylor defenitely helped.
> Or Hoeberl. And the other guys.
>
> I still watch Pumping Iron. I have 30 or so vids
> on my hard drive, but i rarely watch them.
> From Coleman to Levrone and Dorian to
> Lee Priest.

Have you seen Levrone in his new movie or movies? There was something
in at least one of the muscle magazines.

Columbu did his version of the action adventure hero films.

> Coleman is very impressive, and the weights
> are awesome, but he talks nonsense. Really,
> he does.

I've never purchased any of his DVDs. In what way does he talk
nonsense? Insane? Incorrect info? Gibberish? I've heard he favors some
explicit lyrics, but not sure if you'd characterize that as nonsense.

Did you read about his nerve problem? As his explanation for his
weaker lat during the recent Olympia? I'm wondering if he'll be back
to his former Olympia shape by year's end.

> Haney is more or less the only one i watch,
> besides Arnold.
>
> Also, find ways to reward yourself after a
> grueling intense workout. Sounds childish,
> yes, but those subtle things help you going.

I agree, but Kim Basinger won't return my calls!

> Pete

--
Curt

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 03:12:35 -0500, Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

>I know. I wondered if other parts of the world where experiencing
>anything similar. This is the warmest winter I recall in my entire
>life. I think it was December before I even put a winter coat on.

Well, gee, maybe that's because that until Dec 20th, it is still AUTUMN.

>I have an aunt that lives near Tucson. I don't recall her saying it
>ever got that hot.

Gee, heat in ARIZONA... whooda thunkit...

>She had a lot of breathing problems and allergies
>as a kid and the change was good. Out there you get dry heat but
>around here it can get very humid. I remember asking a kid on a
>plane from South America what he thought after spending the summer in
>Massachusetts. He said it was too hot and couldn't wait to get home.

Well, duh -- when it's summer in MA, it's WINTER back home. Duh.

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174254369.560465.113710@y66g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> Richard wrote:
> [...]
>
> > The real problem I'm having is getting
> > enough food... cause my appetite should
> > be much greater, but I'm finding it hard to
> > force feed myself even 3500 calories a
> > day. Not sure why I don't have a good
> > appetite. I'm losing a lot of bodyfat and
> > I'm not getting enough food.
>
> The good folk at Animal Pak recommended the Wendy's and Burger King
> approach (recently espoused by Pete and Schuh if I interpreted all
> that correctly). One triple cheeseburger can pack on some calories
> mighty quick.

Can't stand it. Tried to eat a double BK cheesburger yesterday and almost
barfed all over the table.


> Has anyone recommended blender drinks to you as a possibly healthier
> alternative? You can drink a thousand calories a lot quicker than you
> can eat them.

Sounds good!

> So, arm yourself with a between-meals milkshake or smoothie:
>
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...ilding&spell=1
> aka http://tinyurl.com/2f6s5w

Now that's a good idea! Thanks!!

Richard

> --
> Curt
>

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> schreef:

>>Low inclines
>>Barbell/dumbell rows
>>Overheads
>>Pullups
>>Curls
>>Skullcrushers

>>Day 7 i did situps, leg raises and standing calf raises.

> I assume the incline is benching. So no upper leg work?

Couldnt do legs, i worked out at home, without a rack. Just a bench.

>>And i ate 5000 Kcals/.day.

> No weight problems? I seem to just get fat when I up the calorie
> intake.

Not really.
I seemed to retain a bit of water, but no fat.

> Arnold has been an inspiration to me since childhood. And not just
> with the weights. I think bodybuilding has gotten freakish over the
> years with the steroid use and spray on tans. The competition is
> fierce because only the top guys make any money at the sport. I
> should probably get that Pumping Iron movie. Just watching the guys
> workout is probably more fun. I picked up a mag recently with a lot of
> old Arnold photos. There was one in there with him doing donkey calve
> raises with two huge guys on his back.

Probably Bill Grant and Franco Columbo.

--
Pete