protein before or during a workuot better then after a workout?

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:01:01 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>You have a high-school-health-class understanding of nutrition.

No John we didn't have high school health when I was in school. That
didn't come along until the hippie kids started going to school.
Their mommies and daddies didn't teach them how to take care of
themselves. Of course being raised in hick town you probably needed
that.

>You're the one with the archaic assumption that "sugar is bad." So
>maybe even a dumbass like you can learn something while I explain this
>to others.

How can it be archaic if most people don't know about it.

>First, my comment on carbohydrate consumption referred solely to
>simple sugars at or near the time of resistance training. The
>purpose: insulin release. Insulin plus certain amino acids (leucine
>in particular) prompt mTOR signaling of muscle protein synthesis. The
>underlying cellular mechanism has been established in multiple recent
>studies, and the basic effect has been well recognized for more than a
>decade -- it was being discussed frequently in this newsgroup ten
>years ago.

Sounds pretty dumb. Keep choking down that sugar fatboy. Hope you
get diabetes when you get older.

>And as to all that icky table sugar ... Some of the foremost
>researchers of nutrition related to muscle protein synthesis are Dr.
>Kevin Tipton and his associates at the University of Texas - Medical
>Branch in Galveston. Their studies have involved the consumption of
>amino acids (sometimes in the form of whey or whole milk) and
>carbohydrates before, during, and after heavy resistance training.

None of that is sugar.

> Do
>you know what they often used as their carbohydrate component? 30
>grams of sucrose. That's right, Sparky -- an ounce of table sugar. A
>molecule of glucose bonded to a molecule of fructose by a hydrogen
>atom, which breaks down to the individual monosaccharides in the gut,
>almost immediately.

There is sugar in everything John. That doesn't mean it is good for
you. You can take some crap, add sugar, and call it candy. They also
did it because it is easy. Scientists are always going to take the
fastest shortcut they can with the least amount of variables. And
again that doesn't mean it is good for you or that there are not
better ways to achieve the same result.

>My comment about apple and pear juice? Both have a very high fructose
>content. Fructose must be converted to glucose in the gut before it
>is useful, and in some people, that conversion is slow and causes
>gastrointestinal distress. For some reason, that problem does not
>occur amongst most people with the fructose fraction of sucrose.

Digestion problems are a whole other issue. Some people cannot digest
lactose in milk either. That wasn't my point and those people should
already know how to deal with their problem. I can eat just about
anything and my blood sugar level goes up almost immediately. Pure
sugar on the other hand will be followed by an overdose of insulin
which saps energy levels and can damage organs over time. The key
would be how much sugar I ingest. Most people already get far too
much sugar in their diets.

>But now comes Shute, who was a high school wrestler and passed his
>high school health class.

Like I said I didn't have high school health. And wrestlers know a
allot more tricks than you to curb weight. What I know came from a
professional nutritionist at the age of 13. Thanks to the things he
taught me I feel better even all these years later.

> He thinks he knows everything there is to know about this stuff.

No John I just know more than you. And since you know next to nothing
that isn't too hard.

>If he had come to MFW with the intention of
>learning something, he might not be considered such a moron, but he
>decided to come here and set himself up as a seasoned expert, not
>realizing that the level of discourse in this newsgroup is, and always
>has been, well beyond his level of understanding. And rather than
>admitting that he's not well versed in the subject matter, he chooses
>to regurgitate the same simplistic factoids that he learned in high
>school, then insult others when they tell him he's wrong.

Glad you think I am an expert John. Why would I come here if I
already knew everything? That is how you see yourself like a god and
teacher of all. I have learned quite a bit here but none of it came
from you. The people like you who calling me a moron do the same to
anyone coming in here. So why should I take anything they say
seriously. They even call professional bodybuilders morons so it has
nothing to do with my experiences level.

And what the fuck did you do in high school John? Play the tuba. I
bet you got your ass kicked every day at school and that pissed you
off.

>As to the physiological analysis above, I can provide cites to medical
>and scientific literature for everything I wrote. What have you got,
>Shute?

I am sure everything coming out of your mouth came from some "expert".
You are not capable of original thought. You are like a monkey
repeating what was told to you by some guy that never lifted weights
before. And you cannot apply any of it properly because you don't
really understand what they are telling you.

I have a brain John. That is something you don't have.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:15:21 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>Fat asses? This spring, you were at 33% body fat. That's clinically
>obese. At the beginning of September, you bragged about being down to
>22% body fat. Who's the fat ass, Shute?

Where did you get that from your stalking file of me? I have been
down to 16% for quite a while now. That is well within the fit range
of body fat. I chose maintain that weight for a while before
proceeding further. I wasn't aware I needed approval or permission
from you to do so.

Funny you neglect to mention your own bodyfat mister 32" waist.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:56:35 GMT, "David Cohen"
<sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Hospital nutrition is the worst, and is designed by Registered Dieticians,
>who are the most ignorant group of "professionals" one could possibly
>encounter. You'd like them.

So you feel your worker colleagues are as ignorant as the rest of MFW.
Must be tough being surrounded by idiots all day long.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>No John we didn't have high school health when I was in school. That
>didn't come along until the hippie kids started going to school.

So you went to high school in the 1950s? Yeah, that sounds about
right.

>Like I said I didn't have high school health. And wrestlers know a
>allot more tricks than you to curb weight. What I know came from a
>professional nutritionist at the age of 13.

So you learned everything you know from a 1950s professional
nutritionist? Yeah, that sounds about right, too.

>I am sure everything coming out of your mouth came from some "expert".
>You are not capable of original thought. You are like a monkey
>repeating what was told to you by some guy that never lifted weights
>before. And you cannot apply any of it properly because you don't
>really understand what they are telling you.
>
>I have a brain John. That is something you don't have.

Uh-huh. So Shute is man at 33% body fat with a lifetime of resentment
and Little Man Syndrome. I'm sure you think you're brilliant.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:49:06 -0800, Lucas Buck
<sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:04:16 -0500, Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:46:26 GMT, "David Cohen"
>><sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"JMW" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote
>>>> Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>> JMW <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>One other matter: the analysis you gave applies to protein PLUS
>>>>>>CARBOHYDRATES. Consume something sugary that will supply immediate
>>>>>>glucose. Sucrose (table sugar) is OK; something even higher in
>>>>>>glucose (i.e., more than 50%) is even better. Avoid stuff that's
>>>>>>sweetened with apple or pear juice or HFCS 90 (the type of high
>>>>>>fructose corn syrup used in instant drink mixes).
>>>>>
>>>>>Sounds like great advice is someone wants to become a fat ass.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, please do tell us: Why is that?
>>>
>>>Oh, please does he have to? The list of things about which Poop Shute is
>>>utterly ignorant of, and anxious to post about, is getting a bit unwieldy.
>>>
>>>It would be easier to list things he does know something about.
>>>
>>>1) <eventually insert something here, one has to just hope>
>>>
>>>David
>>
>>Lets (sic) see. Your (sic) both fat asses and (sic) you don't know what made you that
>>way. Why should I bother to help you again. (sic) I could care less (sic) if you
>>roll over and squash your girlfriend one night in bed.
>>
>>I realize John is just an idiot (sic) but your (sic) a nurse (sic) Cohen. ...
>
>And your command of the English language really, really sucks.

What did your computer malfunction. What is with all the (sic) stuff.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:25:27 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Bully" <bully1@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
>>>> Fat asses? This spring, you were at 33% body fat. That's clinically
>>>> obese.
>
>>> At what % are you clinically obese?
>
>> 30
>
>Thanks.
>
>In April 07 i get a check up. Regarding my sick-leave.
>
>If everything goes right, i might show up weighing over 300 pounds.
>
>They **BETTER** dont give me any shit about being obese.
>
>Water, after all, is part of lean tissue, not fat. The two really dont mix
>well...
>
>----
>Pete

Pete, obesity ratings are based on your sex and age. It is more like
26% or over for men your age. If they use accurate measures to take
your body fat you are probably well within the fit or better. If they
use a BMI which is based on height and weight they will say your
obese.

JMW wrote:
>
> >remember kids, john thinks mfw should only discuss what john wants to
> >discuss.
>
> This from Mr. Supplements-Suck-Science-Sucks-Eat-Big-Lift-Weights.

you're only correct in one of those four sets: supplements suck.

i'm all for science. and, yes, i do believe you should eat big and
lift weights if you want to get stronger and more muscular.

a statement that is 75% correct isn't bad, i guess.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:15:21 -0500, JMW
><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>>Fat asses? This spring, you were at 33% body fat. That's clinically
>>obese. At the beginning of September, you bragged about being down to
>>22% body fat. Who's the fat ass, Shute?
>
>Where did you get that from your stalking file of me? I have been
>down to 16% for quite a while now.

"Quite a while"?

"Now I am down to 172 pounds and 22% body fat."
-- Shute, September 1, 2006

>That is well within the fit range
>of body fat. I chose maintain that weight for a while before
>proceeding further. I wasn't aware I needed approval or permission
>from you to do so.
>
>Funny you neglect to mention your own bodyfat mister 32" waist.

My pics are on my web site. Where are yours, Porky?

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:12:09 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>No John we didn't have high school health when I was in school. That
>>didn't come along until the hippie kids started going to school.
>
>So you went to high school in the 1950s? Yeah, that sounds about
>right.

As usual that doesn't make any sense John. I take it your as bad at
math as you are at science.

>>Like I said I didn't have high school health. And wrestlers know a
>>allot more tricks than you to curb weight. What I know came from a
>>professional nutritionist at the age of 13.
>
>So you learned everything you know from a 1950s professional
>nutritionist? Yeah, that sounds about right, too.

Not quite John. Better go check your math again.

>>I am sure everything coming out of your mouth came from some "expert".
>>You are not capable of original thought. You are like a monkey
>>repeating what was told to you by some guy that never lifted weights
>>before. And you cannot apply any of it properly because you don't
>>really understand what they are telling you.
>>
>>I have a brain John. That is something you don't have.
>
>Uh-huh. So Shute is man at 33% body fat with a lifetime of resentment
>and Little Man Syndrome. I'm sure you think you're brilliant.

And a third strike with the math. Your comments are so retarded they
are not even worth responding too.

"kcmunchkin@gmail.com" <kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>JMW wrote:
>>
>> >remember kids, john thinks mfw should only discuss what john wants to
>> >discuss.
>>
>> This from Mr. Supplements-Suck-Science-Sucks-Eat-Big-Lift-Weights.
>
>you're only correct in one of those four sets: supplements suck.
>
>i'm all for science.

And yet you ignore it, preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Uh-huh. So Shute is man at 33% body fat with a lifetime of resentment
>>and Little Man Syndrome. I'm sure you think you're brilliant.
>
>And a third strike with the math. Your comments are so retarded they
>are not even worth responding too.

"I pretty much stopped working out of any kind until this past
February at age 37. I had gained and lost some weight over the years.
But at that time I was at my worse over 200 pounds. I finally had
enough of being fat and started working out. My only record of body
fat was well after I started working out and I recorded 33%."

-- Shute, September 1, 2006

JMW wrote:
>
> And yet you ignore it, preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.

john, we've already gone over this: i do read journal articles, i just
find few that contain any conclusions that are of practical value with
regard to gaining strengh and/or muscle mass.

i have a whole folder of journal articles in pdf format on my computer
at home.

in fact, i just found one on my machine relating to the old one-set
versus multi-set argument that i found enlightening. if my machine at
home were connected to the internet, i'd post the citation.

and, if worshipping the accomplishments of bodybuilding greats like
sergio oliva, arnold, and scott wilson -- to name just a few -- is
silly, then i guess i'm silly.

if i remember your site correctly, you started in the iron game much
later than i did even though you're significantly older than i am.
does that matter? who knows...

"kcmunchkin@gmail.com" <kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>JMW wrote:
>>
>> And yet you ignore it, preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.
>
>john, we've already gone over this: i do read journal articles, i just
>find few that contain any conclusions that are of practical value with
>regard to gaining strengh and/or muscle mass.
>
>i have a whole folder of journal articles in pdf format on my computer
>at home.
>
>in fact, i just found one on my machine relating to the old one-set
>versus multi-set argument that i found enlightening. if my machine at
>home were connected to the internet, i'd post the citation.
>
>and, if worshipping the accomplishments of bodybuilding greats like
>sergio oliva, arnold, and scott wilson -- to name just a few -- is
>silly, then i guess i'm silly.
>
>if i remember your site correctly, you started in the iron game much
>later than i did even though you're significantly older than i am.
>does that matter? who knows...

Which makes me wonder about you. You claim to be 31 years old.
Sergio and Arnold were done with the Olympia before you were born.
Many people are "set" on the way they did things in their teens and
early adulthood, but not many are as "retro" as you are.

Me? I want to know the current advances are. While my
accomplishments are far from phenomenal, I'm not afraid to post pics
or videos, nor am I afraid to state my verified lifts, as well as what
nutritional and training techniques I have used.

So I'm curious ... where has your program gotten you?

JMW wrote:
>
> So I'm curious ... where has your program gotten you?

read my old posts. i've already typed my progress twice before.

i'll give you the nutshell: i started out as a skinny 140-45 lb
weakling and tried to gain weight for years...then, at 17, i got a
training partner and a real gym membership and got up to 198 in just
over 2 years. that was 12 years ago (1992-1994).

as of this morning -- at the gym -- i'm 207. could be a bit leaner,
but in great shape...if i do say so myself.

i'm 31 years old. i'll be 32 in december. my sign is sagittarius.

any other inquiries will have to be directed to my publicist.

John Williams wrote:
> "kcmunchkin" wrote:
> >JMW wrote:
> >>
> >> Andrzej, this is misc.fitness.weights, not alt.support.diet.* or
> >> alt.support.porkers.deluded. The original question regarded the timing
> >> of protein intake around resistance training, not general diet
> >> considerations.
> >
> >remember kids, john thinks mfw should only discuss what john wants to
> >discuss.
>
> This from Mr. Supplements-Suck-Science-Sucks-Eat-Big-Lift-Weights.

Supplements do suck. I mean, relative to time in the gym, food eaten,
and rest taken. What would you suggest, John, some Korean ginseng and
creatine or a workout followed by a nap? I've seen the people who buy
supplements. Heck, I'm one of them. Certainly supplements alone are not
going to do much, so, yeah, I'd tend to agree with Mr.
Supplements-Suck-Science-Sucks-Eat-Big-Lift-Weights over Mr.
Elvira-Kicked-Me-To-The-Curb-And-I'm-Pissy-PubMed-Lover any day of the
week.

Hth.

--
Curt

John Williams wrote:
[...]

> <snip> preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.

Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/

And Bill Grant is a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/

Much respect.

Deny it and i WILL ride my big bad Harley to Ohio! ;o)

Of course, I'll never see YOU as you've neglected to ante up with your
phone number or address. My bestestest pal and all. Yeesh. S

I guess I could drop my Christmas card off at the dog pound. /That/
address has been posted often enough in the ng. Meh.

--
Curt

JMW wrote:
> Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:15:21 -0500, JMW
>> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Fat asses? This spring, you were at 33% body fat. That's
>>> clinically obese. At the beginning of September, you bragged about
>>> being down to 22% body fat. Who's the fat ass, Shute?
>>
>> Where did you get that from your stalking file of me? I have been
>> down to 16% for quite a while now.
>
> "Quite a while"?
>
> "Now I am down to 172 pounds and 22% body fat."
> -- Shute, September 1, 2006
>
>> That is well within the fit range
>> of body fat. I chose maintain that weight for a while before
>> proceeding further. I wasn't aware I needed approval or permission
>> from you to do so.
>>
>> Funny you neglect to mention your own bodyfat mister 32" waist.
>
> My pics are on my web site. Where are yours, Porky?

Excuse me, I believe John "look how far my head is up my arse" Hudson has
rights on the use of the word Porky on the WW Internet Usenet thing!

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

> Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/

Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.

Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.

And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben to shove that Mr.O up
his ass.

Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the Mr. Universes come
together and then see who was best, right? So why not create a contest for
Mr.O winners? And then, etc. etc.

> And Bill Grant is a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/

So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.

----
Pete

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:36:56 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Uh-huh. So Shute is man at 33% body fat with a lifetime of resentment
>>>and Little Man Syndrome. I'm sure you think you're brilliant.
>>
>>And a third strike with the math. Your comments are so retarded they
>>are not even worth responding too.
>
>"I pretty much stopped working out of any kind until this past
>February at age 37. I had gained and lost some weight over the years.
>But at that time I was at my worse over 200 pounds. I finally had
>enough of being fat and started working out. My only record of body
>fat was well after I started working out and I recorded 33%."
>
> -- Shute, September 1, 2006

And by September I was down to 18.5%. I don't say anywhere in there
when I took the 33% measurement. And if in your stalking you bothered
to read other posts you would see that measurement may have even been
inaccurate.

Besides even at my absolute fattest I didn't look as bad as you do in
this picture:
http://www.rustyiron.net/john95a.jpg

On 10 Nov 2006 16:35:22 -0800, "kcmunchkin@gmail.com"
<kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote:

>JMW wrote:
>>
>> And yet you ignore it, preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.
>
>john, we've already gone over this: i do read journal articles, i just
>find few that contain any conclusions that are of practical value with
>regard to gaining strengh and/or muscle mass.

I like the old time great bodybuilders. Not for the bullshit reason
John gives. They did it before everyone else and that makes them
legends.

>i have a whole folder of journal articles in pdf format on my computer
>at home.
>
>in fact, i just found one on my machine relating to the old one-set
>versus multi-set argument that i found enlightening. if my machine at
>home were connected to the internet, i'd post the citation.

John picks out stupid idiotic research articles which might give him a
mm gain. Nothing wrong with sticking stuff proven in the gym.

>if i remember your site correctly, you started in the iron game much
>later than i did even though you're significantly older than i am.
>does that matter? who knows...

I wish I stuck with it when I was your age. I found it easier to back
then which was partially because my body was already in good shape to
start with.

"JMW" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> schreef:

>>if i remember your site correctly, you started in the iron game much
>>later than i did even though you're significantly older than i am.
>>does that matter? who knows...

> Which makes me wonder about you. You claim to be 31 years old.
> Sergio and Arnold were done with the Olympia before you were born.
> Many people are "set" on the way they did things in their teens and
> early adulthood, but not many are as "retro" as you are.

True.

I remember i was freaked by a picture of Nubret when i was 12 or 13. Then i
saw a few pictures of Sergio. I had no idea who Arnold was, at the time.

----
Pete

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> schreef:

>>john, we've already gone over this: i do read journal articles, i just
>>find few that contain any conclusions that are of practical value with
>>regard to gaining strengh and/or muscle mass.

> I like the old time great bodybuilders. Not for the bullshit reason
> John gives. They did it before everyone else and that makes them
> legends.

They also used high protein diets and supplement before everyone.

And they were right, as it turned out.

They were also right that heavy training sessions could have a positive
impact on health, were doctors in those days, and NOW, still claim that
heavy weights causes high BP and all that shit.

>>i have a whole folder of journal articles in pdf format on my computer
>>at home.

>>in fact, i just found one on my machine relating to the old one-set
>>versus multi-set argument that i found enlightening. if my machine at
>>home were connected to the internet, i'd post the citation.

> John picks out stupid idiotic research articles which might give him a
> mm gain. Nothing wrong with sticking stuff proven in the gym.

You have to realize that in the old days, a lot people looked at BBers as
idiots, just because they were gulping down several protein shakes each day.

Times change...

----
Pete

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:56:34 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>> John picks out stupid idiotic research articles which might give him a
>> mm gain. Nothing wrong with sticking stuff proven in the gym.
>
>You have to realize that in the old days, a lot people looked at BBers as
>idiots, just because they were gulping down several protein shakes each day.
>
>Times change...

True. But I think there is a lot more crappy newly discovered crap
then useful information. Even pro bodybuilders get caught up in it
and will tell you how much better the new way is.

Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
>
> > Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
>
> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.

Freddy Ortiz, too.

Pete, if you don't have Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of
bodybuilding then put it on your Christmas list. It's a fast read and
entertaining as hell. Tons of photos from the old days with new
captions written by Draper - who can really write well.

http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast...ing-scene.html

> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.

Both incredible. A piece on Bill Pearl's Eugene (or Eugen) Sandow act
is how Tyler's book begins his book, btw. Here's that article:
http://www.davedraper.com/pearl-wcbs-excerpt.html

> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.

I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
the story there?

Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html

Apparently Joe Weider advised Arnold not to compete against Pearl in
1970 at the NABBA Universe for fear that a Schwarzenegger loss would
discredit the IFBB's version of the Mr. U.

> Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the
> Mr. Universes come together and then see who was best,
> right? So why not create a contest for Mr.O winners? And
> then, etc. etc.

But that would have been a short list of competitors, right? Scott,
Oliva, Arnold back then?

> > And Bill Grant is

Grant is 60 and is still in incredible shape. And I don't mean
_incredible shape for a 60-year-old man_ but incredible shape as in
*stepping on stage and winning a physique contest*.

> > a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
>
> So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.

Ha! Well, that makes him an actual rock star, but Levrone apparently,
despite his astounding genetic gifts, was not bit by the bodybuilding
bug like some. Grant and Draper still have that fire and are involved
in the sport.

Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/

They currently have a fund raiser for the original Gold's Gym.
http://ironage.us/mecca.html

> Pete

--
Curt

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> schreef:

>>You have to realize that in the old days, a lot people looked at BBers as
>>idiots, just because they were gulping down several protein shakes each
>>day.

>>Times change...

> True. But I think there is a lot more crappy newly discovered crap
> then useful information. Even pro bodybuilders get caught up in it
> and will tell you how much better the new way is.

They get paid to say such things.

They still do what the old-timers did, with the addition of Gh and insuline,
and even more protein and calories.

Training methods, AFAIK, havent changed whatsoever.

----
Pete

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163264347.649276.235590@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Pete wrote:
>> "Curt" schreef:
>>
>> > Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
>>
>> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
>
> Freddy Ortiz, too.
>
> Pete, if you don't have Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of
> bodybuilding then put it on your Christmas list. It's a fast read and
> entertaining as hell. Tons of photos from the old days with new
> captions written by Draper - who can really write well.
>
> http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast...ing-scene.html
>
>> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
>
> Both incredible. A piece on Bill Pearl's Eugene (or Eugen) Sandow act
> is how Tyler's book begins his book, btw. Here's that article:
> http://www.davedraper.com/pearl-wcbs-excerpt.html
>
>> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
>> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
>
> I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> the story there?
>
> Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
> http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html
>
> Apparently Joe Weider advised Arnold not to compete against Pearl in
> 1970 at the NABBA Universe for fear that a Schwarzenegger loss would
> discredit the IFBB's version of the Mr. U.
>
>> Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the
>> Mr. Universes come together and then see who was best,
>> right? So why not create a contest for Mr.O winners? And
>> then, etc. etc.
>
> But that would have been a short list of competitors, right? Scott,
> Oliva, Arnold back then?
>
>> > And Bill Grant is
>
> Grant is 60 and is still in incredible shape. And I don't mean
> _incredible shape for a 60-year-old man_ but incredible shape as in
> *stepping on stage and winning a physique contest*.
>
>> > a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
>>
>> So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.
>
> Ha! Well, that makes him an actual rock star, but Levrone apparently,
> despite his astounding genetic gifts, was not bit by the bodybuilding
> bug like some. Grant and Draper still have that fire and are involved
> in the sport.
>
> Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/
>
> They currently have a fund raiser for the original Gold's Gym.
> http://ironage.us/mecca.html
>
>> Pete
>
> --
> Curt
>

Hi Curt,

Have you seen this one?

http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/

Some of the scanned books are pretty interesting.

The one by Dowd has probably got the original Body for life "before" and
"after" pictures

http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/...wd/dowd-09.jpg

http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/...wd/dowd-11.jpg

Bill

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.

> Freddy Ortiz, too.

Also a good one.

> Pete, if you don't have Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of
> bodybuilding then put it on your Christmas list. It's a fast read and
> entertaining as hell. Tons of photos from the old days with new
> captions written by Draper - who can really write well.

> http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast...ing-scene.html

Will chech if the ABC has it in stock. I think they do.

>> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.

> Both incredible. A piece on Bill Pearl's Eugene (or Eugen) Sandow act
> is how Tyler's book begins his book, btw. Here's that article:
> http://www.davedraper.com/pearl-wcbs-excerpt.html

>> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
>> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.

> I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> the story there?

He was invited several time to compete in 65, but declined.

For the reasons i gave. I am pretty sure about that.
He figured a contest *on top* of the Universe was BS.

> Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
> http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html

> Apparently Joe Weider advised Arnold not to compete against Pearl in
> 1970 at the NABBA Universe for fear that a Schwarzenegger loss would
> discredit the IFBB's version of the Mr. U.

That thing went on even trough the early eighties.
Weird thing is that, in that period, the NABBA BBers appeared more massive.

>> Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the
>> Mr. Universes come together and then see who was best,
>> right? So why not create a contest for Mr.O winners? And
>> then, etc. etc.

> But that would have been a short list of competitors, right? Scott,
> Oliva, Arnold back then?

True.
But the list of competitors of the O was also short.

And... you probably remember what happened in 68. Nobody, exept Sergiom
showed up.

>> > And Bill Grant is

> Grant is 60 and is still in incredible shape. And I don't mean
> _incredible shape for a 60-year-old man_ but incredible shape as in
> *stepping on stage and winning a physique contest*.

>> > a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/

>> So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.

> Ha! Well, that makes him an actual rock star, but Levrone apparently,
> despite his astounding genetic gifts, was not bit by the bodybuilding
> bug like some. Grant and Draper still have that fire and are involved
> in the sport.

John Brown, a former NABBA Mr. Universe, was seen in a video about Shawn
Ray.
Seems he trained Shawn for quite a while.

John was a massive dude in the early eighties.

> Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/

> They currently have a fund raiser for the original Gold's Gym.
> http://ironage.us/mecca.html

Okay, will check that out.

----
Pete

Shute wrote:
> JMW wrote:
[...]

> > <snip>That's right, Sparky<snip>

Nicknames are cool, aren't they,
EmmyJohnnyJMWhat-will-he-think-of-next?

[...]
> > He thinks he knows everything there is to
> > know about this stuff.

I must have missed that post. You'd never lie, would you, John?

[...]

> > If he had come to MFW with the intention of
> > learning something,

I'm pretty sure he DID come to MFW with the intention of learning
something, however things have a way of straying from the good
intentions and into... JMW Is A Jerk Land. And quite easily, too, ime.

I arrived in 2004 with one question. Something like, "Hey, who won the
Olympia?" The Queen of Dis and Gruntled complained. You commented that
I must be a special troll. And... The Rest Is History! ;o) (Or at least
we were off to the races.)

You're a dick, Williams. You pride yourself in that fact, right? It's
not the tenderfuzzyrainbow MFW, but the hardnosed whatever. This ng has
some excellent patrons with superior knowledge. You may have that
superior knowledge thing down, but you don't qualify as an excellent
patron due to your less than stellar diplomatic skills. Iow, you have a
controlling, insecure, chip on your shoulder, grade school bully
personality. And it doesn't serve you or the ng well. Okay, that's
opinion, but so is much of your nonsense. Troll? You are the expert,
imo.

> > he might not be considered such a moron,

I don't consider him a moron. I'd be surprised if I was the only one.
Of course, should anyone disagree with you, John Williams, well, you'll
be certain to Google the living snot out of them in search of some
comment, quote, example - real or imagined - that you can present as
the reason they're not qualified to have the opinion that you're an...
ass. Oops, that was a typo. I meant wrong. W-r-o-n-g.

> > but he decided to come here and set himself up
> > as a seasoned expert, not realizing that the level
> > of discourse in this newsgroup is, and always
> > has been, well beyond his level of understanding.

(sits quietly by the ferns while listening intently to MFW's welcome
wagon rep)

"He's just so enthralling. What's he got? A PhD in Superciliousness?"

> > And rather than admitting that he's not well versed
> > in the subject matter, he chooses to regurgitate

Oh! You are NOT criticizing someone for regurgitation habits, are you?
HA!

[...]

> > then insult others

ahahahHAHAH! And you're not finding fault with someone who would
wrongly choose to insult others. No. You wouldn't have the audacity to
do that, please. Ho! That is a good one.

What's that like? What is that like? There's got to be a good
example...

That's like, well, me telling someone not to post so much. heh )

You're oblivious, John. I just keep coming back to unconscious
incompetence wrt your behavior, your attitude, your personality. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, PubMed, fructose, sucrose, apple and pear juice whatevah.
You're smart enough. You've been here a hundred years. But you have
something stuck so far up your something that it's never comin' out.
Ever.

Not even if you ask politely. ;o)

> when they tell him he's wrong.

YOU're wrong.

(waits for Dub's reaction)

See? Pot, kettle, black is what it's all about and you don't see how
wrong you are. Your wheels are spinning and you enjoy it. Cool. Just
don't put yourself above or beyond all that you're apparently accusing
this latest person you've chosen to... converse with.

> <snip> Why would I come here if I already
> knew everything?

Good question.

Because MFW is a fantastic resource. You can find the answer here. And,
if not the answer, then better questions to pursue elsewhere. It's a
newsgroup with a diverse population literally spanning the globe. And
Ohio. Its patrons are often at odds with each other but that (at least
for me) creates no small amount of entertainment. If I haven't said it
before, welcome to the newsgroup. Enjoy your stay. And take the good
from Williams' posts while ignoring the bad. (Or, yeah, giving him a
swift text-based kick as you pass.)

> That is how you see yourself like a god and
> teacher of all. <snip> The people like you who
> calling me a moron do the same to anyone
> coming in here. So why should I take anything they
> say seriously. They even call professional bodybuilders
> morons so it has nothing to do with my experiences level.
>
> And what the fuck did you do in high school John?
> Play the tuba.

Geez, what's wrong with the tuba? ;o)

> I bet you got your ass kicked every day at school and
> that pissed you off.

Maybe he like it.

[...]

> > What have you got, Shute?

You. In his face. Probably some other stuff, too, but at first glance,
yeah.

[...]

> I have a brain John.

Okay, and that. But you don't need a brain to see just how much of a
jerk Williams can be.

Don't ask how I know. ;o)

[...]

--
Curt

Bill wrote:
> "Curt" wrote:
> > Pete wrote:
> >> "Curt" schreef:
> >>
> >> > Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
> >>
> >> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
[...]

> >> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
[...]

> >> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
> >> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
> >
> > I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> > the story there?
> >
> > Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
> > http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html
[...]

> > Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/
[...]

> Hi Curt,
>
> Have you seen this one?
>
> http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/

No, Bill, I hadn't seen that one. Thank you.

(checks link)

Man, that is awesome. As a teen, my introduction to bodybuilding and
weights was by Bob Hoffman's magazines and at least one of his books. I
must have gotten that at Ephrata's public library. I forget the title,
but it contained stories of, iirc, Louis Cyr, Tony Sansone, George
Jowett, Hermann Goerner, Steve Stanko, Johnny Terpak, of course John
Carl Grimek, Tony Terlazzo, and more. As a skinny kid, those stories of
Paul Anderson, et al. and their superhuman strength just set the wheels
of imagination rolling.

Thanks very much for that link, Bill.

> Some of the scanned books are pretty interesting.
>
> The one by Dowd has probably got the original Body for life "before" and
> "after" pictures
>
> http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/...wd/dowd-09.jpg
>
> http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/...wd/dowd-11.jpg

Yeah, I'm almost certain I've seen those images before somewhere.

And let's hear it for the narrow-shouldered physical culturist! ;o)

> Bill

--
Curt