Question about Beginner Cycle and Side Effects

It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @ 500mg/
week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.

This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
testosterone use:
http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/

I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
forum to ask this. Thanks.

On May 14, 1:18 pm, hurtingcollea...@gmail.com wrote:
> It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @ 500mg/
> week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.
>
> This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
> testosterone use:http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/
>
> I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
> just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
> experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
> real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
> forum to ask this. Thanks.

Sorry, didn't mean to post twice.

<hurtingcolleague@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179173885.732721.238530@o5g2000hsb.googlegro ups.com...
> It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @ 500mg/
> week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.
>
> This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
> testosterone use:
> http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/
>
> I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
> just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
> experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
> real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
> forum to ask this. Thanks.


Why, are you naturally low on testosterone to begin with?

On May 14, 12:34 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
> <hurtingcollea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179173885.732721.238530@o5g2000hsb.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @ 500mg/
> > week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.
>
> > This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
> > testosterone use:
> >http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/
>
> > I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
> > just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
> > experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
> > real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
> > forum to ask this. Thanks.
>
> Why, are you naturally low on testosterone to begin with?

Small testicles.

<ephedralover@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179181655.514217.225180@y80g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> On May 14, 12:34 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
> > <hurtingcollea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1179173885.732721.238530@o5g2000hsb.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > > It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @
500mg/
> > > week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.
> >
> > > This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
> > > testosterone use:
> > >http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/
> >
> > > I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
> > > just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
> > > experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
> > > real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
> > > forum to ask this. Thanks.
> >
> > Why, are you naturally low on testosterone to begin with?
>
> Small testicles.

Same boat but the replacement just makes it worse. By the way, does anyone
here have anything good or bad to say about HCG injections? I got an Rx for
it but I'm not sure if I should use it.

Richard wrote:
> <ephedralover@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1179181655.514217.225180@y80g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
>> On May 14, 12:34 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
>>> <hurtingcollea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1179173885.732721.238530@o5g2000hsb.googlegro ups.com...
>>>
>>>> It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @
> 500mg/
>>>> week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.
>>>> This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
>>>> testosterone use:
>>>> http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/
>>>> I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
>>>> just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
>>>> experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
>>>> real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
>>>> forum to ask this. Thanks.
>>> Why, are you naturally low on testosterone to begin with?
>> Small testicles.
>
> Same boat but the replacement just makes it worse. By the way, does anyone
> here have anything good or bad to say about HCG injections? I got an Rx for
> it but I'm not sure if I should use it.
>

Why were you prescribed it? Infertility? I have to be on anabolics to
keep my bone marrow producing cells, so this obviously lowered my
fertility. I used HCG under doctors supervision to boost my fertility,
but whether that was responsible for my beautiful three month old
daughter or not is debatable because I was not using it for very long
before conception (minimum effective window).

Ari


--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com.au> wrote in message
news:f2b494$4cr$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
> Richard wrote:
> > <ephedralover@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1179181655.514217.225180@y80g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> >> On May 14, 12:34 pm, "Richard" <n...@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
> >>> <hurtingcollea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>
> >>> news:1179173885.732721.238530@o5g2000hsb.googlegro ups.com...
> >>>
> >>>> It seems the de facto beginner cycle is Testosterone Enanthate @
> > 500mg/
> >>>> week for 10 weeks along with Nolvadex and Clomid.
> >>>> This website describes the dangers of infertility with exogenous
> >>>> testosterone use:
> >>>> http://www.testosterone-fertility.com/
> >>>> I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
> >>>> just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
> >>>> experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility) so I can get a
> >>>> real-world idea of the risks. Let me know if this is an inappropriate
> >>>> forum to ask this. Thanks.
> >>> Why, are you naturally low on testosterone to begin with?
> >> Small testicles.
> >
> > Same boat but the replacement just makes it worse. By the way, does
anyone
> > here have anything good or bad to say about HCG injections? I got an Rx
for
> > it but I'm not sure if I should use it.
> >
>
> Why were you prescribed it? Infertility? I have to be on anabolics to
> keep my bone marrow producing cells, so this obviously lowered my
> fertility. I used HCG under doctors supervision to boost my fertility,
> but whether that was responsible for my beautiful three month old
> daughter or not is debatable because I was not using it for very long
> before conception (minimum effective window).
>
> Ari

I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and HCG. I
guess its not for infertility (yes I have been warned already but
congratulations).. but instead to keep my testicles from disappearing
altogether? I guess.

>
> --
> spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
> Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
> volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
> http://www.abmdr.org.au/
> http://www.marrow.org/

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

> Same boat but the replacement just makes it worse. By the way, does anyone
> here have anything good or bad to say about HCG injections?

Works fine.

But you have to inject frequent, at least twice a week. Needles can be
small, though.

Side effects? High pressure ejaculations. I once ended up 3 feet from the
bed.

You know... the recoil.

--
Pete

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

> I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and HCG.

Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar and
Proviron.

BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the eighties.

> I guess its not for infertility (yes I have been warned already but
> congratulations).. but instead to keep my testicles from disappearing
> altogether? I guess.

HCG is an LH- agonist. Althoug a doctor i once spoke claimed it had FSH
"properties" as well.

If you want to be sure, combine HCG with HMG.

Or Clomid.

There are also synthetic GnRH analogs, like busereline and gonadereline. The
latter comes in a nassal spray.

--
Pete

<hurtingcolleague@gmail.com> schreef:

> I don't want to start a flame war on the merits of steroid use. I'm
> just wondering whether others have tried this cycle and have
> experienced any sides (such as gyno and infertility).

Gyno, no. Infertility, i dont know, but i guess so. Which is something that
doesnt worry me throughout a cycle.

When the cycle is over, take some HCG with Proviron for 2-3 weeks. Then an
oral for about 2 weeks.

--
Pete

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:46495b61$0$285$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
> > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and HCG.
>
> Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar and
> Proviron.

because then the DEA would ask questions!

> BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the eighties.

Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls have
shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it off.
No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from my
sister however.

> > I guess its not for infertility (yes I have been warned already but
> > congratulations).. but instead to keep my testicles from disappearing
> > altogether? I guess.
>
> HCG is an LH- agonist. Althoug a doctor i once spoke claimed it had FSH
> "properties" as well.
>
> If you want to be sure, combine HCG with HMG.
>
> Or Clomid.
>
> There are also synthetic GnRH analogs, like busereline and gonadereline.
The
> latter comes in a nassal spray.

Eh.. I don't like nasal sprays!!

Richard

> --
> Pete
>
>

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:4649585e$0$297$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
> > Same boat but the replacement just makes it worse. By the way, does
anyone
> > here have anything good or bad to say about HCG injections?
>
> Works fine.
>
> But you have to inject frequent, at least twice a week. Needles can be
> small, though.
>
> Side effects? High pressure ejaculations. I once ended up 3 feet from the
> bed.

WOW!

> You know... the recoil.
>
> --
> Pete
>
>

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

>> > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and HCG.

>> Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar
>> and
>> Proviron.

> because then the DEA would ask questions!

Haha!

I say...FUCK THE DEA !!! No seriously, as long as you have a script, no
matter what, they cant touch your ass.
She gave you Arimidex. IMO, Proviron is a better choice.

>> BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the eighties.

> Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls have
> shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it
> off.

Tapering down the test? Thats a terrible way. It can be done the way you
described, with HCG and Arimidex.

But keep in mind that, while HCG works fine, you are fucked when you stop
taking that too.
HCG replaces LH, and that is secreted by the hypophyse, when the hypothal
releases GnRH. HCG doesnt fix the entire axis, but its a fine way to
jumpstart the tests.

After years of experience, the best way to come of is with HCG as a
jumpstart, together with Proviron, and then followed by orals, first two
dosages daily followed by one dose.

> No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from my
> sister however.

You are something else. But hey, i sure as hell like your attitude.

Clomid is a fine drug, but IMO and IME, a bit overestimated. Sure, it works
fine when there are a ton of estrogens in your system. If you take HCG with
Proviron and follow up with Winstrol or Anavar, then taking Clomid doesnt
make much sense.

Here is what i would do.

You allready have the Clomid, so you might as well use it.

You also have a script for HCG and Arimidex. You see, when you take Arimidex
estrogens are low, so Clomid doesnt really do much. But it doesnt hurt
either. Stop taking the T injections and take Proviron instead. WITH the HCG
and Arimidex. And the Clomid.

After several weeks, stop taking the Clomid and HCG. Continue with Proviron
and add another oral that doesnt aromatize. Take 2 dosages each day for
several weeks. Then switch to one dosage for several weeks.

But then you are completely of. Fertile, but of.

Option 2 is that you just continue with the testosterone. Who says that
testosterone makes you infertile.

You have a script for Arimidex and HCG, and i am willing to bet that semen
are not zero when you take that together with test. Just to be safe, add
half a tab of Clomid each day.

Then, let them examine your fluid.

>> There are also synthetic GnRH analogs, like busereline and gonadereline.
>the latter comes in a nassal spray.

> Eh.. I don't like nasal sprays!!

Busereline is injectable.

In 1990, i had an LH RH test. The pumped me full with stuff, to check if
both hypothalamus/hypophyse-testicles were woking. And they were. Both LH
and
FSH skyrocketed, and so did testosterone.

But the stuff can lead to testicular exhaustion. Too much HCG can do that
too.

Pete

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

>> But you have to inject frequent, at least twice a week. Needles can be
>> small, though.

>> Side effects? High pressure ejaculations. I once ended up 3 feet from the
>> bed.

> WOW!

HCG is also responsible for facials, when... facials are not really
desirable ;-O
If i pulled that trick with the woman i am with now, she would kick my ass.
Badly.

--
Pete

Pete,
Telling someone to get Proviron does no one any good here. The only way to
obtain Proviron in the US is through Mexico. It is illegal and who knows
what one is getting. Proviron also does not do what 99% of the people
believe it does. It has NEVER been proven to actually be a real anti
Estrogen nor an aromititaze inhibitor, no matter how many "steroid" books
claim it does. Having a script for one drug does not help one in obtaining
anything but that specific drug. Even then, if he can't get it through legit
channels, he is opening himself up to prosecution. While you may think it is
funny to say "fuck the DEA" etc., most people here are not willing to get
nailed with a felony conviction. I highly doubt you would either. If Richard
had a legit script for HCG and Arimidex, then he could go to a local
pharmacy and fill it. From what I know, he does not in fact have that
script. I could be wrong, but I think that is why he is trying to obtain
more info.

--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/


"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:464984b4$0$289$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
>>> > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and HCG.
>
>>> Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar
>>> and
>>> Proviron.
>
>> because then the DEA would ask questions!
>
> Haha!
>
> I say...FUCK THE DEA !!! No seriously, as long as you have a script, no
> matter what, they cant touch your ass.
> She gave you Arimidex. IMO, Proviron is a better choice.
>
>>> BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the eighties.
>
>> Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls have
>> shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it
>> off.
>
> Tapering down the test? Thats a terrible way. It can be done the way you
> described, with HCG and Arimidex.
>
> But keep in mind that, while HCG works fine, you are fucked when you stop
> taking that too.
> HCG replaces LH, and that is secreted by the hypophyse, when the hypothal
> releases GnRH. HCG doesnt fix the entire axis, but its a fine way to
> jumpstart the tests.
>
> After years of experience, the best way to come of is with HCG as a
> jumpstart, together with Proviron, and then followed by orals, first two
> dosages daily followed by one dose.
>
>> No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from my
>> sister however.
>
> You are something else. But hey, i sure as hell like your attitude.
>
> Clomid is a fine drug, but IMO and IME, a bit overestimated. Sure, it
> works
> fine when there are a ton of estrogens in your system. If you take HCG
> with
> Proviron and follow up with Winstrol or Anavar, then taking Clomid doesnt
> make much sense.
>
> Here is what i would do.
>
> You allready have the Clomid, so you might as well use it.
>
> You also have a script for HCG and Arimidex. You see, when you take
> Arimidex
> estrogens are low, so Clomid doesnt really do much. But it doesnt hurt
> either. Stop taking the T injections and take Proviron instead. WITH the
> HCG
> and Arimidex. And the Clomid.
>
> After several weeks, stop taking the Clomid and HCG. Continue with
> Proviron
> and add another oral that doesnt aromatize. Take 2 dosages each day for
> several weeks. Then switch to one dosage for several weeks.
>
> But then you are completely of. Fertile, but of.
>
> Option 2 is that you just continue with the testosterone. Who says that
> testosterone makes you infertile.
>
> You have a script for Arimidex and HCG, and i am willing to bet that semen
> are not zero when you take that together with test. Just to be safe, add
> half a tab of Clomid each day.
>
> Then, let them examine your fluid.
>
>>> There are also synthetic GnRH analogs, like busereline and gonadereline.
>>the latter comes in a nassal spray.
>
>> Eh.. I don't like nasal sprays!!
>
> Busereline is injectable.
>
> In 1990, i had an LH RH test. The pumped me full with stuff, to check if
> both hypothalamus/hypophyse-testicles were woking. And they were. Both LH
> and
> FSH skyrocketed, and so did testosterone.
>
> But the stuff can lead to testicular exhaustion. Too much HCG can do that
> too.
>
> Pete
>

"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
news:HMj2i.22800$%P1.14322@newsfe07.phx...
> Pete,
> Telling someone to get Proviron does no one any good here. The only way to
> obtain Proviron in the US is through Mexico. It is illegal and who knows
> what one is getting. Proviron also does not do what 99% of the people
> believe it does. It has NEVER been proven to actually be a real anti
> Estrogen nor an aromititaze inhibitor, no matter how many "steroid" books
> claim it does. Having a script for one drug does not help one in obtaining
> anything but that specific drug. Even then, if he can't get it through
legit
> channels, he is opening himself up to prosecution. While you may think it
is
> funny to say "fuck the DEA" etc., most people here are not willing to get
> nailed with a felony conviction. I highly doubt you would either. If
Richard
> had a legit script for HCG and Arimidex, then he could go to a local
> pharmacy and fill it. From what I know, he does not in fact have that
> script. I could be wrong, but I think that is why he is trying to obtain
> more info.

Rob, I have a prescription but the doctor will not give me a hard copy of my
prescription to take to Walgreens.

Instead, he charges me out the *ass* to get ALL my meds filled at ONE
"preferred" pharmacy that is in Colorado! I have called that pharmacy to get
it switched to Walgreens and they said I have to contact the doctor.

I'm afraid to take the HCG shots that they sent me. I already paid for it
and have the stuff, but I'm afraid to take it. Like Pete said.. what happens
if my LH production goes down. Then I have even more problems. I'm not
feeling as well as I did last year. I'm thinking that my doctor doesn't know
what he is doing. He's just trying to sell me stuff through his "preferred"
pharmacy. But he did cut me back to 100mg per week of T enanthate (last lab
result was 820) and tells me to take the HCG shots and to take Arimidex.. I
have been complaining about the joint pains with Arimidex though. I just
want to get off of it now and get my testicles working again. He says that
the HCG will help with that but I'm not sure I can take his advice.

Richard

> --
> Robert Schuh
> "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
>
> "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> news:464984b4$0$289$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
> >
> >>> > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and
HCG.
> >
> >>> Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar
> >>> and
> >>> Proviron.
> >
> >> because then the DEA would ask questions!
> >
> > Haha!
> >
> > I say...FUCK THE DEA !!! No seriously, as long as you have a script, no
> > matter what, they cant touch your ass.
> > She gave you Arimidex. IMO, Proviron is a better choice.
> >
> >>> BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the
eighties.
> >
> >> Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls have
> >> shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it
> >> off.
> >
> > Tapering down the test? Thats a terrible way. It can be done the way you
> > described, with HCG and Arimidex.
> >
> > But keep in mind that, while HCG works fine, you are fucked when you
stop
> > taking that too.
> > HCG replaces LH, and that is secreted by the hypophyse, when the
hypothal
> > releases GnRH. HCG doesnt fix the entire axis, but its a fine way to
> > jumpstart the tests.
> >
> > After years of experience, the best way to come of is with HCG as a
> > jumpstart, together with Proviron, and then followed by orals, first two
> > dosages daily followed by one dose.
> >
> >> No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from
my
> >> sister however.
> >
> > You are something else. But hey, i sure as hell like your attitude.
> >
> > Clomid is a fine drug, but IMO and IME, a bit overestimated. Sure, it
> > works
> > fine when there are a ton of estrogens in your system. If you take HCG
> > with
> > Proviron and follow up with Winstrol or Anavar, then taking Clomid
doesnt
> > make much sense.
> >
> > Here is what i would do.
> >
> > You allready have the Clomid, so you might as well use it.
> >
> > You also have a script for HCG and Arimidex. You see, when you take
> > Arimidex
> > estrogens are low, so Clomid doesnt really do much. But it doesnt hurt
> > either. Stop taking the T injections and take Proviron instead. WITH the
> > HCG
> > and Arimidex. And the Clomid.
> >
> > After several weeks, stop taking the Clomid and HCG. Continue with
> > Proviron
> > and add another oral that doesnt aromatize. Take 2 dosages each day for
> > several weeks. Then switch to one dosage for several weeks.
> >
> > But then you are completely of. Fertile, but of.
> >
> > Option 2 is that you just continue with the testosterone. Who says that
> > testosterone makes you infertile.
> >
> > You have a script for Arimidex and HCG, and i am willing to bet that
semen
> > are not zero when you take that together with test. Just to be safe, add
> > half a tab of Clomid each day.
> >
> > Then, let them examine your fluid.
> >
> >>> There are also synthetic GnRH analogs, like busereline and
gonadereline.
> >>the latter comes in a nassal spray.
> >
> >> Eh.. I don't like nasal sprays!!
> >
> > Busereline is injectable.
> >
> > In 1990, i had an LH RH test. The pumped me full with stuff, to check if
> > both hypothalamus/hypophyse-testicles were woking. And they were. Both
LH
> > and
> > FSH skyrocketed, and so did testosterone.
> >
> > But the stuff can lead to testicular exhaustion. Too much HCG can do
that
> > too.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>
>

In article <FWe2i.242730$ZA5.191289@newsfe15.phx>, "Richard"
<no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:

> "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> news:46495b61$0$285$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
> >
> > > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and HCG.
> >
> > Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar and
> > Proviron.
>
> because then the DEA would ask questions!
>
> > BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the eighties.
>
> Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls have
> shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it off.
> No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from my
> sister however.

Find a better doctor then who has a clue about getting the HPTA back up
and running.


http://www.asih.net/documents/Meso%2...il%202006_.htm

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

"Will Brink" <willbrink@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:willbrink-1505071710020001@192.168.2.156...
> In article <FWe2i.242730$ZA5.191289@newsfe15.phx>, "Richard"
> <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
>
> > "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> > news:46495b61$0$285$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
> > >
> > > > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and
HCG.
> > >
> > > Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone, Anavar
and
> > > Proviron.
> >
> > because then the DEA would ask questions!
> >
> > > BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the
eighties.
> >
> > Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls have
> > shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it
off.
> > No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from
my
> > sister however.
>
> Find a better doctor then who has a clue about getting the HPTA back up
> and running.
>
>
>
http://www.asih.net/documents/Meso%2...il%202006_.htm


Thanks for the link. Just by glancing over it, I can safely determine that
my doctor is certainly NOT up to date with this. Of course, I am naturally
hyopgonadal to begin with. I have no idea why.. possible pituitary tumor or
something else. One endocrin said its related to hypothyroidism. So when I
say to my doctor that I want to come off of it for awhile, that means I am
happy just going back to a serum level of 200! I think I'm lucky to even
have that level.


> --
> Will @ www.BrinkZone.com
>
> "It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:XFp2i.309040$JN6.284319@newsfe17.phx...
> "Will Brink" <willbrink@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:willbrink-1505071710020001@192.168.2.156...
> > In article <FWe2i.242730$ZA5.191289@newsfe15.phx>, "Richard"
> > <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:
> >
> > > "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:46495b61$0$285$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > > > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
> > > >
> > > > > I have no idea. The doctor prescribed T enanthate, Arimidex, and
> HCG.
> > > >
> > > > Then she might as well go all the way and give some nandrolone,
Anavar
> and
> > > > Proviron.
> > >
> > > because then the DEA would ask questions!
> > >
> > > > BTW, doesnt HCG upregulate aromataze? We believed that in the
> eighties.
> > >
> > > Interesting. What's the proper way to come off T now that my balls
have
> > > shrunk. Doctor just wants to slowly go down on my dose and then cut it
> off.
> > > No clomid or nothing. I have a box of clomid that I have obtained from
> my
> > > sister however.
> >
> > Find a better doctor then who has a clue about getting the HPTA back up
> > and running.
> >
> >
> >
>
http://www.asih.net/documents/Meso%2...il%202006_.htm
>
>
> Thanks for the link. Just by glancing over it, I can safely determine that
> my doctor is certainly NOT up to date with this. Of course, I am naturally
> hyopgonadal to begin with. I have no idea why.. possible pituitary tumor
or
> something else. One endocrin said its related to hypothyroidism. So when I
> say to my doctor that I want to come off of it for awhile, that means I am
> happy just going back to a serum level of 200! I think I'm lucky to even
> have that level.

By the way.. there are two reasons that I need to stop the treatment. First,
my balls are shrinking of course. Second, and most important, I have noticed
a sharp increase in PSVT attacks (tachycardia) since I have been given T
injections. I have been told that its not related, but when I skip a dose, I
have no PSVT attacks. I don't understand it, but I don't need to. I just
need to take a break from it even if my level drops to 100 and I start
talking like a woman.. the PSVT attacks are not fun.

>
> > --
> > Will @ www.BrinkZone.com
> >
> > "It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural
>
>

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

> Thanks for the link. Just by glancing over it, I can safely determine that
> my doctor is certainly NOT up to date with this.

I once read that estradiol is about 100 times more powerfull when it comes
to supressing the hypothal then testosterone. I dont know if thats true, but
estrogens seem to be the problem.

> Of course, I am naturally
> hyopgonadal to begin with. I have no idea why.. possible pituitary tumor
> or
> something else. One endocrin said its related to hypothyroidism. So when I
> say to my doctor that I want to come off of it for awhile, that means I am
> happy just going back to a serum level of 200! I think I'm lucky to even
> have that level.

The never checked your prolactine levels?

--
Pete

"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> schreef:

> Pete,
> Telling someone to get Proviron does no one any good here. The only way to
> obtain Proviron in the US is through Mexico.

I didnt knew that. Its still availeble here. And preffered by many over
injections.

> It is illegal and who knows what one is getting.
> Proviron also does not do what 99% of the people believe it does. It has
> NEVER been proven to actually be a real anti Estrogen nor an aromititaze
> inhibitor, no matter how many "steroid" books claim it does.

Perhaps not in the same sense of Cytadren and Arimidex, but i am pretty sure
it has some effect.

> Having a script for one drug does not help one in obtaining anything but
> that specific drug. Even then, if he can't get it through legit channels,
> he is opening himself up to prosecution. While you may think it is funny
> to say "fuck the DEA" ...

That was a joke i suspected Richard would get.

> etc., most people here are not willing to get nailed with a felony
> conviction. I highly doubt you would either.

Eh... Henk Rommy is still in jail. He was convicted for 20 years. A cab
driver here from Amsterdam also has spend a lot of time in jail.

Both were being set up by the DEA. Yeah fuck, those cocksuckers.

And yes, if i lived in the USA, i would probably be a little more quite.
Until then, fuck em.

--
Pete

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

> By the way.. there are two reasons that I need to stop the treatment.
> First,
> my balls are shrinking of course.

Is that a problem? No, seriously. Do you want to have kids? Otherwise, what
the hell.

> Second, and most important, I have noticed
> a sharp increase in PSVT attacks (tachycardia) since I have been given T
> injections. I have been told that its not related, but when I skip a dose,
> I
> have no PSVT attacks. I don't understand it, but I don't need to. I just
> need to take a break from it even if my level drops to 100 and I start
> talking like a woman.. the PSVT attacks are not fun.

Havant got a clue. But it seems more related to estrogens than androgens.

--
Pete

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

> He says that the HCG will help with that but I'm not sure I can take his
> advice.

It helps, but it fucks up the HPTA. You see, the testicles work fine, and a
large portion of test is converted to estrogen, which will bind to the
hypothal and GnRH will no longer be secreted. Which will result in shutdown
of LH & FSH. Despite that, the testicles may run fine.

Like you mentioned, you have a script for Arimidex and you have Clomid,
right?

Take both. Half a tab of Clomid will be fine with Arimidex. Together with
the HCG, every gland will work.

The problem is, that you have to get of the above mentioned as well.

If you dont have access to orals that dont aromatize, i suggest the
following.

Take the HCG for several weeks. (together with Arimidex and Clomid) Then
stop with the HCG, and continue with Clomid and Arimidex. Stop with the
Clomid after another 2-3 weeks. Then take the Arimidex for several weeks and
then stop.

If you take all three together and stop suddenly, you are fucked. The HCG is
an *excellent* choice for a jumpstart, but will make things worse if you
take it too long.

Another option is HCG for life. Or Clomid for life. Or HCG & Arimidex, and
you allready have a script for that.
Or Testosterone and Clomid for life. Or, as i mentioned before, test for
life. If you dont want kids, that is.

The "trick" with these things, as i have learned, are test/estradiol and
GnRH. LH & FSH will be secreted if GnRH is secreted, assuming your pituitary
(hypophyse) is normal. For the hypothalamus it doesnt really matter if the
test/estra comes out of an amp, is induced by HCG or is endogenous. When
levels are high, GnRH secretion is stopped.

If you want endogenous test, stop taking the injections, and take the HCG
for no longer then 3 weeks. Seriously.

--
Pete

In article <XFp2i.309040$JN6.284319@newsfe17.phx>, "Richard"
<no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for the link. Just by glancing over it, I can safely determine that
> my doctor is certainly NOT up to date with this.

That much is clear from the stupid way he/she plans to get you off the T.

>Of course, I am naturally
> hyopgonadal to begin with.

Then why would you be coming off?

>I have no idea why.. possible pituitary tumor or
> something else.

Then see a good endocrinologist and find out. They can tell what's causing
it, or at least find out where in the HPTA the problem is, and address it.


> One endocrin said its related to hypothyroidism.

Then he/she should have corrected that. That too is very easy to treat.

> So when I
> say to my doctor that I want to come off of it for awhile, that means I am
> happy just going back to a serum level of 200! I think I'm lucky to even
> have that level.

Hey, it's your limp member, increased bodyfat, increased CVD risk, and
bad mood, not mine. There's no reason to come off, ever. I would however
find a better doc who has a clue aabout such things.


>
>
> > --
> > Will @ www.BrinkZone.com
> >
> > "It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

In article <4_p2i.242763$ZA5.46835@newsfe15.phx>, "Richard"
<no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote:


>
> By the way.. there are two reasons that I need to stop the treatment. First,
> my balls are shrinking of course.

That wont change and thats what HCG and other drugs are for.

>Second, and most important, I have noticed
> a sharp increase in PSVT attacks (tachycardia) since I have been given T
> injections. I have been told that its not related, but when I skip a dose, I
> have no PSVT attacks. I don't understand it, but I don't need to.

Sure you do, see a cardiologist and or a shrink. You either have some
cardiac issue or your a neurotic head case, or both, which is fine :-)

>I just
> need to take a break from it even if my level drops to 100 and I start
> talking like a woman.. the PSVT attacks are not fun.

See a real doc and stop self diagnosing. Coming off the T for a while and
switching to HCG for a while works well, but things need to be tracked
well.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:464ad498$0$92122$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
> > He says that the HCG will help with that but I'm not sure I can take his
> > advice.
>
> It helps, but it fucks up the HPTA. You see, the testicles work fine, and
a
> large portion of test is converted to estrogen, which will bind to the
> hypothal and GnRH will no longer be secreted. Which will result in
shutdown
> of LH & FSH. Despite that, the testicles may run fine.
>
> Like you mentioned, you have a script for Arimidex and you have Clomid,
> right?

I have a script for T, Arimidex, and HCG. I do not have a script for Clomid.
My sister gave me a box of it and I'll be damned if I didn't lose the box.


> Take both. Half a tab of Clomid will be fine with Arimidex. Together with
> the HCG, every gland will work.
>
> The problem is, that you have to get of the above mentioned as well.

I thought so.

> If you dont have access to orals that dont aromatize, i suggest the
> following.
>
> Take the HCG for several weeks. (together with Arimidex and Clomid) Then
> stop with the HCG, and continue with Clomid and Arimidex. Stop with the
> Clomid after another 2-3 weeks. Then take the Arimidex for several weeks
and
> then stop.

OK. If I only had clomid.

> If you take all three together and stop suddenly, you are fucked. The HCG
is
> an *excellent* choice for a jumpstart, but will make things worse if you
> take it too long.

OK

> Another option is HCG for life. Or Clomid for life. Or HCG & Arimidex, and
> you allready have a script for that.

My goal is to get off everything for awhile. Its screwing with my PSVT.

> Or Testosterone and Clomid for life. Or, as i mentioned before, test for
> life. If you dont want kids, that is.

Hell no I don't want kids.

> The "trick" with these things, as i have learned, are test/estradiol and
> GnRH. LH & FSH will be secreted if GnRH is secreted, assuming your
pituitary
> (hypophyse) is normal.

Its probably abnormal, from what I have been told.

> For the hypothalamus it doesnt really matter if the
> test/estra comes out of an amp, is induced by HCG or is endogenous. When
> levels are high, GnRH secretion is stopped.
>
> If you want endogenous test, stop taking the injections, and take the HCG
> for no longer then 3 weeks. Seriously.

OK! great.

Richard

> --
> Pete
>
>

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

>> Like you mentioned, you have a script for Arimidex and you have Clomid,
>> right?

> I have a script for T, Arimidex, and HCG. I do not have a script for
> Clomid.
> My sister gave me a box of it and I'll be damned if I didn't lose the box.

You can do this without Clomid. The trick is to keep the estrogens close to
zero.

>> Another option is HCG for life. Or Clomid for life. Or HCG & Arimidex,
>> and
>> you allready have a script for that.

> My goal is to get off everything for awhile. Its screwing with my PSVT.

I understand.

I took my share of shots, but never had such problems. I really dont know
whats causing it.

>> Or Testosterone and Clomid for life. Or, as i mentioned before, test for
>> life. If you dont want kids, that is.

> Hell no I don't want kids.

Then screw the HCG and Clomid!

Are you worried about the cosmetic value of your testes? Dont be. I was on
test for a long time once, and they shrunk, but stayed within whats
considered normal. They shrink up to a point, not infinitely.

>> The "trick" with these things, as i have learned, are test/estradiol and
>> GnRH. LH & FSH will be secreted if GnRH is secreted, assuming your
> pituitary
>> (hypophyse) is normal.

> Its probably abnormal, from what I have been told.

Whats the cause of your hypoganodism? Did you have the LH-RH test?

--
Pete

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:464c129e$0$57757$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
> >> Like you mentioned, you have a script for Arimidex and you have Clomid,
> >> right?
>
> > I have a script for T, Arimidex, and HCG. I do not have a script for
> > Clomid.
> > My sister gave me a box of it and I'll be damned if I didn't lose the
box.
>
> You can do this without Clomid. The trick is to keep the estrogens close
to
> zero.
>
> >> Another option is HCG for life. Or Clomid for life. Or HCG & Arimidex,
> >> and
> >> you allready have a script for that.
>
> > My goal is to get off everything for awhile. Its screwing with my PSVT.
>
> I understand.
>
> I took my share of shots, but never had such problems. I really dont know