When to stop? plus, help me with my back workout

Hi all

I've been lifting for the past 6 months and I'm wondering: when to
stop?

I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being
tired of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do
you think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it
when you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a
certain size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of
definition? Any input from you guys is more than welcome.

Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups. The
problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
dumbbell rows. What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
replacement exercises you'd recommend?

Thanks,

"Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6dda766-14db-4c72-84eb-713639a12ac4@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all
>
> I've been lifting for the past 6 months and I'm wondering: when to
> stop?
>
> I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being
> tired of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do
> you think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it
> when you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a
> certain size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of
> definition? Any input from you guys is more than welcome.
>

You seem to answer your own question. If you like it, why cut back or stop?
As to specific goals, those are questions for you alone to answer. Why don't
you give the group a clue what you want and ask how to best achieve it?

> Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
> comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups. The
> problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
> dumbbell rows. What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
> replacement exercises you'd recommend?

OK, your goal should be to do at least one chinup, especially after six
months of training. Why do you think you can't do this yet? Freides will
offer good advice on chinups/pullups but I think you should consider doing
lat pulldowns and negatives on an assisted pullup machine. Also how hard are
you trying? I suspect that unless you have a health or weight issue, you
need to push yourself harder.

On May 21, 11:11*pm, "Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pach...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a6dda766-14db-4c72-84eb-713639a12ac4@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hi all
>
> > I've been lifting for the past 6 months and I'm wondering: when to
> > stop?
>
> > I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being
> > tired of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do
> > you think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it
> > when you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a
> > certain size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of
> > definition? Any input from you guys is more than welcome.
>
> You seem to answer your own question. If you like it, why cut back or stop?
> As to specific goals, those are questions for you alone to answer. Why don't
> you give the group a clue what you want and ask how to best achieve it?
>
> > Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
> > comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups. The
> > problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
> > dumbbell rows. What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
> > replacement exercises you'd recommend?
>
> OK, your goal should be to do at least one chinup, especially after six
> months of training. Why do you think you can't do this yet? Freides will
> offer good advice on chinups/pullups but I think you should consider doing
> lat pulldowns and negatives on an assisted pullup machine. Also how hard are
> you trying? I suspect that unless you have a health or weight issue, you
> need to push yourself harder.

I can do more or less three chin ups. The first one is perfect, I'm
shaking on the second one and the third one can be considered a chin
up if we're nice. I don't think it's a strength issue. I'm 70kg and
I'm doing 3x10 22.5kg on the incline dumbbell rows.

"Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
..... The
> > problem is, I can't do one single chin up ....

>I can do more or less three chin ups. ...

Ray, are you jerkin our chain?

In article
<9ec97a3f-63b7-4f1b-a307-406bf0fe6394@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Ray Pachinko <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 21, 11:11*pm, "Zen Cohen" <atu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pach...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:a6dda766-14db-4c72-84eb-713639a12ac4@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > Hi all
> >
> > > I've been lifting for the past 6 months and I'm wondering: when to
> > > stop?
> >
> > > I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being
> > > tired of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do
> > > you think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it
> > > when you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a
> > > certain size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of
> > > definition? Any input from you guys is more than welcome.
> >
> > You seem to answer your own question. If you like it, why cut back or stop?
> > As to specific goals, those are questions for you alone to answer. Why don't
> > you give the group a clue what you want and ask how to best achieve it?
> >
> > > Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
> > > comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups. The
> > > problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
> > > dumbbell rows. What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
> > > replacement exercises you'd recommend?
> >
> > OK, your goal should be to do at least one chinup, especially after six
> > months of training. Why do you think you can't do this yet? Freides will
> > offer good advice on chinups/pullups but I think you should consider doing
> > lat pulldowns and negatives on an assisted pullup machine. Also how hard are
> > you trying? I suspect that unless you have a health or weight issue, you
> > need to push yourself harder.
>
> I can do more or less three chin ups. The first one is perfect, I'm
> shaking on the second one and the third one can be considered a chin
> up if we're nice. I don't think it's a strength issue. I'm 70kg and
> I'm doing 3x10 22.5kg on the incline dumbbell rows.

Of course it is strength - what else can it be? Endurance? I think not.

If you specifically want to do more pull-ups - then do more pull-ups.
Ideally you could install a pull-up bar in a doorway you use a lot and
everytime you walk under it - do a pull-up or two.

If you are unable to do this then do 3-5 pull-up workouts per week. And
forget the incline db row for assistance. Do pull-ups, barbell bent
rows, and deadlifts.

--
Keith

Dnia 2008-05-21 Ray Pachinko napisa³(a):
> Hi all
>
> I've been lifting for the past 6 months and I'm wondering: when to
> stop?
>
> I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being
> tired of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do
> you think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it
> when you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a
> certain size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of
> definition? Any input from you guys is more than welcome.

Progress with weights (or muscles, if you like seeing it this way) slows
down as your training age increases. Add to that that as your training
age increases, your normal age increases too, so you lose some of your
gains due to aging. It's easy to see, that at some point you need to
run fairly hard to stay in one place. If you train long enough and grow
old enough, aging will ultimately outpace your training progress.

Even then it makes a lot of sense to train, because old age is the age
when you really could use some muscles, just to be able to move about
your life effectively.

Now, the real gem. Training makes you happier. It's something I know
"for sure", because I've mental health problems, and lifting is the
thing I do to moderate the symptoms of them. Mental health also
generally decreases with age. Inactive people have more problems with
their moods and the right amount of training definitely helps.

> Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
> comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups.

Do not bother with wide grip. It feels goofy and is of no practical
importance for a casual trainer.

> The
> problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
> dumbbell rows.

Try a barbell, if you want more bang for a buck from one exercise. But
barbell rows are more difficult to learn, so be reasonable and don't do
something which may hurt you, that is learn it well before loading a bar
heavily.

> What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
> replacement exercises you'd recommend?

A woman I know started training recently and I showed her Kelso shrugs.
She happened to like them. It's like a pullup, but not a pullup,
because you bend your arms only as much as you can. Beside that you
simply pull your shoulder back and down, like you'd do a shrug. It's
one of those easy to show - hard to explain things.

Here are some pictures for Kelso shrug for rows, but for pullups the
idea is exactly the same, that is straight arms and just a shrug for
movement.
http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/latshrug.html

Here Shaf does some at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWKiM_nrqk
It's all good stuff in this video.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Wed, 21 May 2008, Ray Pachinko wrote:

> I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being tired
> of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do you
> think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it when
> you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a certain
> size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of definition?

I'll stop when i'm strong enough. Which will be never.

> Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
> comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups. The
> problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
> dumbbell rows. What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
> replacement exercises you'd recommend?

Close-grip pull-downs. Mechanically, pretty much the same thing as a
chin-up, and you can do them with less than your bodyweight, so they're
the perfect way to train up to them. Or assisted chin-ups if you have
access to a machine for those.

Oh hang on, do you work out at home or in a gym? If at home, this is
harder.

tom

--
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. -- Mark Twain

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, 21 May 2008, Ray Pachinko wrote:
>
>> I don't want to stop exercising and so far I'm not close of being
>> tired of weightlifting, but I think this is a valid question: when do
>> you think you've reached an appropriate level in your training? Is it
>> when you can benchpress your own weight? Is it when you've achieved a
>> certain size/weight? When you achieved a certain criteria of definition?
>
> I'll stop when i'm strong enough. Which will be never.
>
>> Now, a more practical question: I started a new program that when it
>> comes to the back recommends wide grip pull ups and chin ups. The
>> problem is, I can't do one single chin up so I just do bent over
>> dumbbell rows. What's the best way to strengthen the back muscles? Any
>> replacement exercises you'd recommend?
>
> Close-grip pull-downs. Mechanically, pretty much the same thing as a
> chin-up, and you can do them with less than your bodyweight, so they're
> the perfect way to train up to them. Or assisted chin-ups if you have
> access to a machine for those.
>
> Oh hang on, do you work out at home or in a gym? If at home, this is
> harder.
>
> tom
>
Some time ago after lifting for maybe 2 years, I asked a similar
question about maintaining what I had achieved. In my latter 50's I was
happy with the outcomes I had made. Keith Hobbes replied "why would you
just want to maintain, don't you want to continually improve"? After
some thought I had to agree and that advice has served me well. There is
now end point for me, only a trend line now.

Bob

On Thu, 22 May 2008, Bob Volkmer wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 May 2008, Ray Pachinko wrote:
>>
>>> you've reached an appropriate level in your training?
>>
>> I'll stop when i'm strong enough. Which will be never.
>
> Some time ago after lifting for maybe 2 years, I asked a similar
> question about maintaining what I had achieved. In my latter 50's I was
> happy with the outcomes I had made. Keith Hobbes replied "why would you
> just want to maintain, don't you want to continually improve"? After
> some thought I had to agree and that advice has served me well. There is
> now end point for me, only a trend line now.

DEADLIFTS: putting the ASS in ASYMPTOTE!

tom

--
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