Squat seminar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+FitCast&hl=en

Dan John teaches here some basics of lifting, including squatting.
He's a very good coach. It's 50 min (haven't seen all, yet) but I
recommend it. I'm impressed how easily he managed to fix a technique
on one guy within seemingly a moment. Good coach.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2006-11-13 Andrzej Rosa napisa³(a):
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+FitCast&hl=en
>
> Dan John teaches here some basics of lifting, including squatting.
> He's a very good coach. It's 50 min (haven't seen all, yet) but I
> recommend it. I'm impressed how easily he managed to fix a technique
> on one guy within seemingly a moment. Good coach.

It's not good, It's great video. He teaches basics of Olympic lifting
to absolute beginners. There is not a single bar, the only weight he
uses is a plastic chair and he "lifts" it himself, all students don't
lift anything, yet they learn _a lot_. After watching it once I feel
like starting from scratch to rebuild my technique for one-armed lifts.
I'm pretty sure I'll do just that.

No matter if you are a beginner or advanced lifter, you'll learn
something useful from this seminar.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:27:13 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dnia 2006-11-13 Andrzej Rosa napisa?(a):
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+FitCast&hl=en
>>
>> Dan John teaches here some basics of lifting, including squatting.
>> He's a very good coach. It's 50 min (haven't seen all, yet) but I
>> recommend it. I'm impressed how easily he managed to fix a technique
>> on one guy within seemingly a moment. Good coach.
>
>It's not good, It's great video. He teaches basics of Olympic lifting
>to absolute beginners. There is not a single bar, the only weight he
>uses is a plastic chair and he "lifts" it himself, all students don't
>lift anything, yet they learn _a lot_. After watching it once I feel
>like starting from scratch to rebuild my technique for one-armed lifts.
>I'm pretty sure I'll do just that.
>
>No matter if you are a beginner or advanced lifter, you'll learn
>something useful from this seminar.

I am going to start doing squats every day without any weight. I
believe now the squat is the hardest of the basic lifts to learn. I
knew a guy from Vietnam who could squat down comfortably and just sit
there. Most people stop squatting naturally once they are big enough
for a chair. I can get into the position but not easily. I lack
strength and flexibility somewhere in my legs.

I started doing Step-Ups Andrzej. You where right about them being a
functional exercise. I didn't feel them at all in the quads. I
felt them a lot in the ankles and other parts of the legs. Hopefully
basic exercises like these will help me to get strength back in my
legs.

In news:s1iil2horvuq8hmtk1dje1sni1r94o0nto@4ax.com,
Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> typed:
<snip>
> I am going to start doing squats every day without any weight. I
> believe now the squat is the hardest of the basic lifts to learn. I
> knew a guy from Vietnam who could squat down comfortably and just sit
> there.

pretty much the whole third world can do that. it's also the pooping
position, so it's important to master.

<snip>

In article <s1iil2horvuq8hmtk1dje1sni1r94o0nto@4ax.com>,
Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:27:13 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
> <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Dnia 2006-11-13 Andrzej Rosa napisa?(a):
> >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=The+FitCast&
> >> hl=en
> >>
> >> Dan John teaches here some basics of lifting, including squatting.
> >> He's a very good coach. It's 50 min (haven't seen all, yet) but I
> >> recommend it. I'm impressed how easily he managed to fix a technique
> >> on one guy within seemingly a moment. Good coach.
> >
> >It's not good, It's great video. He teaches basics of Olympic lifting
> >to absolute beginners. There is not a single bar, the only weight he
> >uses is a plastic chair and he "lifts" it himself, all students don't
> >lift anything, yet they learn _a lot_. After watching it once I feel
> >like starting from scratch to rebuild my technique for one-armed lifts.
> >I'm pretty sure I'll do just that.
> >
> >No matter if you are a beginner or advanced lifter, you'll learn
> >something useful from this seminar.
>
> I am going to start doing squats every day without any weight.

You may want to check this out.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler19.htm

--
Keith

Dnia 2006-11-14 Shute napisa³(a):
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:27:13 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>It's not good, It's great video. He teaches basics of Olympic lifting
>>to absolute beginners. There is not a single bar, the only weight he
>>uses is a plastic chair and he "lifts" it himself, all students don't
>>lift anything, yet they learn _a lot_. After watching it once I feel
>>like starting from scratch to rebuild my technique for one-armed lifts.
>>I'm pretty sure I'll do just that.
>>
>>No matter if you are a beginner or advanced lifter, you'll learn
>>something useful from this seminar.
>
> I am going to start doing squats every day without any weight. I
> believe now the squat is the hardest of the basic lifts to learn. I
> knew a guy from Vietnam who could squat down comfortably and just sit
> there.

I can do that, my aunt does it all the time. She would absentmindedly
squat beside a chair on occasion. ;-)

> Most people stop squatting naturally once they are big enough
> for a chair. I can get into the position but not easily. I lack
> strength and flexibility somewhere in my legs.

Have you seen this seminar? If not, I strongly recommend that you
would. He teaches how to squat and he does it with solid base of
experience and talent. You can also see what they are doing. I'd say,
you should do this goblet squat they do, and stretch your groin with
your elbows. Often.

> I started doing Step-Ups Andrzej. You where right about them being a
> functional exercise. I didn't feel them at all in the quads. I
> felt them a lot in the ankles and other parts of the legs. Hopefully
> basic exercises like these will help me to get strength back in my
> legs.

They should. In case they do not work, be ready to throw them away.

Funny enough, I decided to squat less. It's not working for me, so the
"holy cow" of all exercises will have to go! I'm bitter, because they
disappointed me, but what's important is to know your goals and be able
to tell if you are getting closer to them or further away from them.

Assuming that lower body strength is your goal, squats are hard to
beat. Step-Ups might turn out to be good assistance, or not. They
work reasonably well for me, so I'll do them more.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:04:56 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Have you seen this seminar? If not, I strongly recommend that you
>would. He teaches how to squat and he does it with solid base of
>experience and talent. You can also see what they are doing. I'd say,
>you should do this goblet squat they do, and stretch your groin with
>your elbows. Often.

Yeah I saw the beginning part twice. I am the guy who gets stuck part
way down and has his upper body too far forward. I can't do a goblet
squat all the way down. I did some searching on the web and saw a
website for someone even more of a beginner like myself. They said to
use a chair in front for balance. Then eventually use the hands
extended forward. That helps from falling backward like when he was
holding the guy having problems with his knee. I want to try doing
them like that for a while and see if it loosens things up and
strengthens my legs. If I can get to doing them without my legs aching
and feeling tired than that should help my weighted squat.

>They should. In case they do not work, be ready to throw them away.
>
>Funny enough, I decided to squat less. It's not working for me, so the
>"holy cow" of all exercises will have to go! I'm bitter, because they
>disappointed me, but what's important is to know your goals and be able
>to tell if you are getting closer to them or further away from them.
>
>Assuming that lower body strength is your goal, squats are hard to
>beat. Step-Ups might turn out to be good assistance, or not. They
>work reasonably well for me, so I'll do them more.

How long have you been doing squats? I can't think of another
exercise that works the legs as well.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:22:09 -0600, Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>You may want to check this out.
>
>http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler19.htm

I used to do a lot of those back in high school. I think that is
part of my problem. I was already an athlete when I trained back
then. Like he says in the article that stuff trains the body a bit
differently than standard weights do. Maybe I will start doing some
of this stuff on my off days.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:04:33 GMT, "ed"
<news_test@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:

>In news:s1iil2horvuq8hmtk1dje1sni1r94o0nto@4ax.com,
>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> typed:
><snip>
>> I am going to start doing squats every day without any weight. I
>> believe now the squat is the hardest of the basic lifts to learn. I
>> knew a guy from Vietnam who could squat down comfortably and just sit
>> there.
>
>pretty much the whole third world can do that. it's also the pooping
>position, so it's important to master.
>
><snip>

There are some health nuts who claim it is better to poop that way
then in a toilet.

And give birth.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:v79kl2tstiggur4n3mh0m5q34sm8tupq9q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:04:33 GMT, "ed"
> <news_test@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
>
>>In news:s1iil2horvuq8hmtk1dje1sni1r94o0nto@4ax.com,
>>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> typed:
>><snip>
>>> I am going to start doing squats every day without any weight. I
>>> believe now the squat is the hardest of the basic lifts to learn. I
>>> knew a guy from Vietnam who could squat down comfortably and just sit
>>> there.
>>
>>pretty much the whole third world can do that. it's also the pooping
>>position, so it's important to master.
>>
>><snip>
>
> There are some health nuts who claim it is better to poop that way
> then in a toilet.
>

Dnia 2006-11-14 Shute napisa³(a):
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:04:56 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Have you seen this seminar? If not, I strongly recommend that you
>>would. He teaches how to squat and he does it with solid base of
>>experience and talent. You can also see what they are doing. I'd say,
>>you should do this goblet squat they do, and stretch your groin with
>>your elbows. Often.
>
> Yeah I saw the beginning part twice. I am the guy who gets stuck part
> way down and has his upper body too far forward. I can't do a goblet
> squat all the way down. I did some searching on the web and saw a
> website for someone even more of a beginner like myself. They said to
> use a chair in front for balance. Then eventually use the hands
> extended forward. That helps from falling backward like when he was
> holding the guy having problems with his knee. I want to try doing
> them like that for a while and see if it loosens things up and
> strengthens my legs. If I can get to doing them without my legs aching
> and feeling tired than that should help my weighted squat.

Makes sense.

>>They should. In case they do not work, be ready to throw them away.
>>
>>Funny enough, I decided to squat less. It's not working for me, so the
>>"holy cow" of all exercises will have to go! I'm bitter, because they
>>disappointed me, but what's important is to know your goals and be able
>>to tell if you are getting closer to them or further away from them.
>>
>>Assuming that lower body strength is your goal, squats are hard to
>>beat. Step-Ups might turn out to be good assistance, or not. They
>>work reasonably well for me, so I'll do them more.
>
> How long have you been doing squats?

I don't bother to check, but recently it was maybe more then a month.
I will still do "sort of" squat; I mean one-handed over head "squats"
and continue with my version of sandbag squats, just not twice a week.

> I can't think of another
> exercise that works the legs as well.

Sure, squats are good for legs. But I want to be able to one-arm
snatch something heavy, and squats didn't do much for that. First, I
lost all my "snap". Squats are very demanding, and they hog plenty of
your recovery ability. You don't get better in snatching if you do not
snatch much, because you are mentally tired from your squat session.
I often ended up doing some sort of bodybuildish slow stuff, just
because it's mentally easier thing, but it doesn't help much with
snatching.

I gave a shot at a dumbbell version of a kettlebell swing to regain The
Snap. It looks promising at the moment. We'll see.

You see, strength is quite specific. Huge back squat or even front
squat doesn't carry over too well even for Oly lifts, so it's not
surprising that it carries over even worse to one-armed stuff.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:45:13 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dnia 2006-11-14 Shute napisa?(a):
>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:04:56 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Have you seen this seminar? If not, I strongly recommend that you
>>>would. He teaches how to squat and he does it with solid base of
>>>experience and talent. You can also see what they are doing. I'd say,
>>>you should do this goblet squat they do, and stretch your groin with
>>>your elbows. Often.
>>
>> Yeah I saw the beginning part twice. I am the guy who gets stuck part
>> way down and has his upper body too far forward. I can't do a goblet
>> squat all the way down. I did some searching on the web and saw a
>> website for someone even more of a beginner like myself. They said to
>> use a chair in front for balance. Then eventually use the hands
>> extended forward. That helps from falling backward like when he was
>> holding the guy having problems with his knee. I want to try doing
>> them like that for a while and see if it loosens things up and
>> strengthens my legs. If I can get to doing them without my legs aching
>> and feeling tired than that should help my weighted squat.
>
>Makes sense.
>
>>>They should. In case they do not work, be ready to throw them away.
>>>
>>>Funny enough, I decided to squat less. It's not working for me, so the
>>>"holy cow" of all exercises will have to go! I'm bitter, because they
>>>disappointed me, but what's important is to know your goals and be able
>>>to tell if you are getting closer to them or further away from them.
>>>
>>>Assuming that lower body strength is your goal, squats are hard to
>>>beat. Step-Ups might turn out to be good assistance, or not. They
>>>work reasonably well for me, so I'll do them more.
>>
>> How long have you been doing squats?
>
>I don't bother to check, but recently it was maybe more then a month.
>I will still do "sort of" squat; I mean one-handed over head "squats"
>and continue with my version of sandbag squats, just not twice a week.
>
>> I can't think of another
>> exercise that works the legs as well.
>
>Sure, squats are good for legs. But I want to be able to one-arm
>snatch something heavy, and squats didn't do much for that. First, I
>lost all my "snap". Squats are very demanding, and they hog plenty of
>your recovery ability. You don't get better in snatching if you do not
>snatch much, because you are mentally tired from your squat session.
>I often ended up doing some sort of bodybuildish slow stuff, just
>because it's mentally easier thing, but it doesn't help much with
>snatching.
>
>I gave a shot at a dumbbell version of a kettlebell swing to regain The
>Snap. It looks promising at the moment. We'll see.
>
>You see, strength is quite specific. Huge back squat or even front
>squat doesn't carry over too well even for Oly lifts, so it's not
>surprising that it carries over even worse to one-armed stuff.

I saw the stuff in there he was talking about snapping. I used to
play left wing and the best way to score goals was with a good wrist
shot. I would see stupid people come in on a break away and then take
a slap shot. They where not aware how much power one could put into a
wrist shot by snapping the wrist. It takes a lot of practice but if
you get good you can shoot anywhere on net both quickly and
powerfully. And unlike as slap shot the goalie has a harder time
fingering out the direction.

Squats and deadlifts are going to tire you out. That is one advantage
to me moving them onto the same day. That keeps me fresh on the upper
body day. To get good at snapping you might want to find a way to
practice without using the heavy weights. There must be some exercise
you can do which can get you stronger and better at it. To get a good
wrist shot in hockey I had to practice constantly. You need just the
right combination of speed, timing, and power.

Dnia 2006-11-14 Shute napisa³(a):
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:45:13 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Sure, squats are good for legs. But I want to be able to one-arm
>>snatch something heavy, and squats didn't do much for that. First, I
>>lost all my "snap". Squats are very demanding, and they hog plenty of
>>your recovery ability. You don't get better in snatching if you do not
>>snatch much, because you are mentally tired from your squat session.
>>I often ended up doing some sort of bodybuildish slow stuff, just
>>because it's mentally easier thing, but it doesn't help much with
>>snatching.
>>
>>I gave a shot at a dumbbell version of a kettlebell swing to regain The
>>Snap. It looks promising at the moment. We'll see.
>>
>>You see, strength is quite specific. Huge back squat or even front
>>squat doesn't carry over too well even for Oly lifts, so it's not
>>surprising that it carries over even worse to one-armed stuff.
>
> I saw the stuff in there he was talking about snapping. I used to
> play left wing and the best way to score goals was with a good wrist
> shot. I would see stupid people come in on a break away and then take
> a slap shot. They where not aware how much power one could put into a
> wrist shot by snapping the wrist. It takes a lot of practice but if
> you get good you can shoot anywhere on net both quickly and
> powerfully. And unlike as slap shot the goalie has a harder time
> fingering out the direction.
>
> Squats and deadlifts are going to tire you out. That is one advantage
> to me moving them onto the same day. That keeps me fresh on the upper
> body day. To get good at snapping you might want to find a way to
> practice without using the heavy weights. There must be some exercise
> you can do which can get you stronger and better at it. To get a good
> wrist shot in hockey I had to practice constantly. You need just the
> right combination of speed, timing, and power.

It's not this kind of wrist snap you are talking about. I meant speed
strength in general, but applied to hip thrust. The problem with
squats and DLs is that they are slooow. I modified my "squat" to be an
explosive movement (I used sandbag held in one hand over, one hand
under grip. I started in the bottom, with sandbag resting on one of my
knees and the other end hanging between them. Then I'd explode up
trying to bring a sandbag high to my chest. Pretty good movement,
actually). Still, even if you make squats faster, they are different
skill and they hit hardest different set of muscles. For example, they
do not require dipping under a barbell, which is a very fast movement
which needs to be practiced often to make it second nature.

So, well, I meant that I lost some speed and some "spark" in my
movements, which didn't carry over to one-armed snatch very well.

Regarding of right combination of speed, timing and power, you are
right. To practice it, it's best to practice snatching. It contains
all the ingredients it needs in just right proportions. The only
problem was, that I needed to deload my wrist for a while, hence
sandbag Zercher'ish squat.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Shute wrote:

[...]

> I started doing Step-Ups Andrzej. You where right about them being a
> functional exercise. I didn't feel them at all in the quads. I
> felt them a lot in the ankles and other parts of the legs. Hopefully
> basic exercises like these will help me to get strength back in my
> legs.

None other than Paul Anderson recommended free squats as part of any
exercise routine.

And this was a guy who, reportedly, could handle 10 reps with 800.
Zoinks!

--
Curt

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:17:55 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>It's not this kind of wrist snap you are talking about.

I assumed you trying to the overhead thrust like the link you posted a
few days earlier. The way that guy was throwing the weight up had a
great deal to do with the snap. The technique is the same but just
snapping different muscles. And that takes more practice than just
using brute strength.

> I meant speed
>strength in general, but applied to hip thrust. The problem with
>squats and DLs is that they are slooow. I modified my "squat" to be an
>explosive movement (I used sandbag held in one hand over, one hand
>under grip. I started in the bottom, with sandbag resting on one of my
>knees and the other end hanging between them. Then I'd explode up
>trying to bring a sandbag high to my chest. Pretty good movement,
>actually). Still, even if you make squats faster, they are different
>skill and they hit hardest different set of muscles. For example, they
>do not require dipping under a barbell, which is a very fast movement
>which needs to be practiced often to make it second nature.

The only thing I ever did like that was in wrestling. For the second
two periods in a match you start on either the top or the bottom.
The bottom guy starts on his hands and knees. The goal is to explode
upwards as quick as possible and break free of the guy on top. The
guy on top tries to pull you down. So you got explosion with
resistance.

We used to practice that movement allot too. Just try and get up as
fast as we could from a hands an knees position. We also used to run
around sometimes with another person on our shoulders to strengthen
the legs. I can't think of anything else we did. I wonder if
something with a varied resistance might be better. My old gym used
to have this leg press where you lied flat on our back. And the
resistance varied throughout the press.

>So, well, I meant that I lost some speed and some "spark" in my
>movements, which didn't carry over to one-armed snatch very well.
>
>Regarding of right combination of speed, timing and power, you are
>right. To practice it, it's best to practice snatching. It contains
>all the ingredients it needs in just right proportions. The only
>problem was, that I needed to deload my wrist for a while, hence
>sandbag Zercher'ish squat.

On 14 Nov 2006 15:38:10 -0800, "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote:

>Shute wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> I started doing Step-Ups Andrzej. You where right about them being a
>> functional exercise. I didn't feel them at all in the quads. I
>> felt them a lot in the ankles and other parts of the legs. Hopefully
>> basic exercises like these will help me to get strength back in my
>> legs.
>
>None other than Paul Anderson recommended free squats as part of any
>exercise routine.
>
>And this was a guy who, reportedly, could handle 10 reps with 800.
>Zoinks!

I wasn't aware the pros did stuff like that. Tonight I tried just
holding myself in the squat position for a while with my back
supported. I also tried a few exercises which move and bend the legs.
I felt a lot of muscle tension release. I could also feel my ankles,
knees, and hips where all stiff. I am thinking this might make a
bigger difference than stretching.

I think of it kind of like greasing up the joints on a machine. If
my legs are not flowing smoothly then it is going to be that much
harder to lift with weights.

In article <1163547490.262334.186480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>,
"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote:

> Shute wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I started doing Step-Ups Andrzej. You where right about them being a
> > functional exercise. I didn't feel them at all in the quads. I
> > felt them a lot in the ankles and other parts of the legs. Hopefully
> > basic exercises like these will help me to get strength back in my
> > legs.
>
> None other than Paul Anderson recommended free squats as part of any
> exercise routine.
>
> And this was a guy who, reportedly, could handle 10 reps with 800.
> Zoinks!

Virtually all olympic weightlifters do squats every workout. But they do
them after the classic lifts.

While Paul Anderson reportedly did a pile in squats nowadays guys less
than half his weight are lifting more in the snatch and c&j. Even in his
day Kono and a number of other lifters were more impressive in the
olympic lifts. Anderson was about strength, not speed/strength.

--
Keith

In article <df1ll256hrs2mefdh8pq6g4a849jvs66i9@4ax.com>,
Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:17:55 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
> <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >It's not this kind of wrist snap you are talking about.
>
> I assumed you trying to the overhead thrust like the link you posted a
> few days earlier. The way that guy was throwing the weight up had a
> great deal to do with the snap. The technique is the same but just
> snapping different muscles. And that takes more practice than just
> using brute strength.
>
> > I meant speed
> >strength in general, but applied to hip thrust. The problem with
> >squats and DLs is that they are slooow. I modified my "squat" to be an
> >explosive movement (I used sandbag held in one hand over, one hand
> >under grip. I started in the bottom, with sandbag resting on one of my
> >knees and the other end hanging between them. Then I'd explode up
> >trying to bring a sandbag high to my chest. Pretty good movement,
> >actually). Still, even if you make squats faster, they are different
> >skill and they hit hardest different set of muscles. For example, they
> >do not require dipping under a barbell, which is a very fast movement
> >which needs to be practiced often to make it second nature.
>
> The only thing I ever did like that was in wrestling. For the second
> two periods in a match you start on either the top or the bottom.
> The bottom guy starts on his hands and knees. The goal is to explode
> upwards as quick as possible and break free of the guy on top. The
> guy on top tries to pull you down. So you got explosion with
> resistance.

Where did you wrestle? Freestyle wrestling doesn't start a person on the
bottom at all any more - hasn't for three years. And before that against
any decent competition you don't want to try and explode upward - 9
times out of 10 you'll get stuck. Get your hips down - get low and get
wide.

--
Keith

Hobbes wrote:

> Virtually all olympic weightlifters do squats every workout. But they do
> them after the classic lifts.
>
> While Paul Anderson reportedly did a pile in squats nowadays guys less
> than half his weight are lifting more in the snatch and c&j. Even in his
> day Kono and a number of other lifters were more impressive in the
> olympic lifts. Anderson was about strength, not speed/strength.
>
> --
> Keith

So how are your olympic lifts coming? I finally bought some shoes this
month (what can I say, I'm cheap) and found they make a world of
difference.
ps

In article <1163600634.519618.159860@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>,
padstyles@yahoo.com wrote:

> Hobbes wrote:
>
> > Virtually all olympic weightlifters do squats every workout. But they do
> > them after the classic lifts.
> >
> > While Paul Anderson reportedly did a pile in squats nowadays guys less
> > than half his weight are lifting more in the snatch and c&j. Even in his
> > day Kono and a number of other lifters were more impressive in the
> > olympic lifts. Anderson was about strength, not speed/strength.
> >
> > --
> > Keith
>
> So how are your olympic lifts coming? I finally bought some shoes this
> month (what can I say, I'm cheap) and found they make a world of
> difference.
> ps
>

My suckage is major...

I'm power snatching or split snatching just under bodyweight - about 200
lbs. I can't do a full squat snatch yet, but I'm still working on it. My
weight in the full squat snatch is less than my power snatch. I can
clean way more than I can jerk - my best jerk is 115 kgs - about 255
lbs.

My shoulders are starting to come back finally after separating them
both last summer (over a year ago) playing rugby.

I enjoy the training though. Way more than powerlifting. But I'm not
competing again until I get the snatch in the triple digits (in
kilograms). Hopefully next spring.

Cheap? So you've been away because you were afraid of wearing out your
keyboard?

--
Keith

padstyles@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hobbes wrote:
>
>> Virtually all olympic weightlifters do squats every workout. But
>> they do them after the classic lifts.
>>
>> While Paul Anderson reportedly did a pile in squats nowadays guys
>> less than half his weight are lifting more in the snatch and c&j.
>> Even in his day Kono and a number of other lifters were more
>> impressive in the olympic lifts. Anderson was about strength, not
>> speed/strength.
>>
>> --
>> Keith
>
> So how are your olympic lifts coming? I finally bought some shoes
> this month (what can I say, I'm cheap) and found they make a world of
> difference.
> ps

How much have they put on your bench ?

Seriously though, how do you find the help?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:23:33 -0600, Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Where did you wrestle? Freestyle wrestling doesn't start a person on the
>bottom at all any more - hasn't for three years. And before that against
>any decent competition you don't want to try and explode upward - 9
>times out of 10 you'll get stuck. Get your hips down - get low and get
>wide.

It was a lot longer than three years ago. Why did they change it and
how do they start now?

I broke free maybe 70% of the time. I was one of the fastest on the
team and my coach always started me on the bottom if given a choice.
The reason is it is more points. You get points to break away and
then more for the takedown. A reversal I think was only one point.
And in my opinion it was far easier to break away than get a reversal.
Any decent wrestler is going to drive his hips into yours and break
your arm down.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:23:33 -0600, in misc.fitness.weights you wrote:

>Where did you wrestle? Freestyle wrestling doesn't start a person on the
>bottom at all any more - hasn't for three years. And before that against
>any decent competition you don't want to try and explode upward - 9
>times out of 10 you'll get stuck. Get your hips down - get low and get
>wide.

Here are the basics rules:
http://www.masswrestling.com/cms/e10...hp?content.315

Skip to the General info section. I guess my high school wrestled
Folkstyle. The rules are a bit different than Freestyle or Greco.
And I guess even the time of year is different.

In article <4ndml2l8h9br0cbegtou97051uh2c8j84f@4ax.com>,
Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:23:33 -0600, Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Where did you wrestle? Freestyle wrestling doesn't start a person on the
> >bottom at all any more - hasn't for three years. And before that against
> >any decent competition you don't want to try and explode upward - 9
> >times out of 10 you'll get stuck. Get your hips down - get low and get
> >wide.
>
> It was a lot longer than three years ago. Why did they change it and
> how do they start now?

It was getting too hard to score points on a person if they got up. So
if one wrestler got up on another it basically became an exercise in
futility (I'm talking national/international level here).

Right now they start from the stand at all times. If you go outside the
ring the other person gets a point and you start standing up. If the
match goes to OT you start from a standing clinch.
>
> I broke free maybe 70% of the time. I was one of the fastest on the
> team and my coach always started me on the bottom if given a choice.
> The reason is it is more points. You get points to break away and
> then more for the takedown. A reversal I think was only one point.
> And in my opinion it was far easier to break away than get a reversal.
> Any decent wrestler is going to drive his hips into yours and break
> your arm down.

Yeah, I'm pretty aware of that. My son has been a Canadian national
juvenile team member. I've done strength and conditioning coaching for
over 20 national champions and for 2004 Canadian Olympic team member
Viola Yanik.

And I'd be suprised of you broke free from any of them once on the
bottom, much less 70% of the time. How many national titles do you have?

--
Keith

In article <8kfml25c1ik7h3fk5nbh7p4gtcvvjfkf1p@4ax.com>,
Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:23:33 -0600, in misc.fitness.weights you wrote:
>
> >Where did you wrestle? Freestyle wrestling doesn't start a person on the
> >bottom at all any more - hasn't for three years. And before that against
> >any decent competition you don't want to try and explode upward - 9
> >times out of 10 you'll get stuck. Get your hips down - get low and get
> >wide.
>
> Here are the basics rules:
> http://www.masswrestling.com/cms/e10...hp?content.315
>
> Skip to the General info section. I guess my high school wrestled
> Folkstyle. The rules are a bit different than Freestyle or Greco.
> And I guess even the time of year is different.

Sorry - assumed it was freestyle and that you were a Canuck (the hockey
comment - we think we own the game!)

:^)

The folkstyle rules are quite a bit different.

--
Keith

Dnia 2006-11-15 Hobbes napisa³(a):
> In article <1163600634.519618.159860@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>,
> padstyles@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> So how are your olympic lifts coming? I finally bought some shoes this
>> month (what can I say, I'm cheap) and found they make a world of
>> difference.
>> ps
>
> My suckage is major...
>
> I'm power snatching or split snatching just under bodyweight - about 200
> lbs. I can't do a full squat snatch yet, but I'm still working on it. My
> weight in the full squat snatch is less than my power snatch. I can
> clean way more than I can jerk - my best jerk is 115 kgs - about 255
> lbs.

Besides weights and style, I'm in similar situation. I can't do
squat snatch, I can clean more than I can bent-press or jerk, so I'm
interested how do you plan to deal with the situation.

My plan for the moment is to squat less often and do "supports" in
bottom position of overhead squat for time. To finish myself I plan on
doing low heavy dumbbell swings. Once I'm good at "supports" I plan to
switch to drop-snatching for reps.

Is there anything wrong with this plan? Clean&Press is less important
for me, so I'm not planing any strategy for increasing it, just doing
it for reps from time to time.

> My shoulders are starting to come back finally after separating them
> both last summer (over a year ago) playing rugby.
>
> I enjoy the training though. Way more than powerlifting. But I'm not
> competing again until I get the snatch in the triple digits (in
> kilograms). Hopefully next spring.

I'd be glad to add 10kg to my one-armed snatch, which would put it over
50kg mark. Pretty much the only lift where I have a chance on
not-extremely-sucky number. ;-)

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>I broke free maybe 70% of the time. I was one of the fastest on the
>team and my coach always started me on the bottom if given a choice.
>The reason is it is more points. You get points to break away and
>then more for the takedown. A reversal I think was only one point.

Reversal = 2
Escape = 1
Takedown = 2

Or so it was 30 years ago. According to a Wikipedia article, they no
longer award points for escapes.

In article <ejfjtb$2bb$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dnia 2006-11-15 Hobbes napisa³(a):
> > In article <1163600634.519618.159860@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>,
> > padstyles@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> So how are your olympic lifts coming? I finally bought some shoes this
> >> month (what can I say, I'm cheap) and found they make a world of
> >> difference.
> >> ps
> >
> > My suckage is major...
> >
> > I'm power snatching or split snatching just under bodyweight - about 200
> > lbs. I can't do a full squat snatch yet, but I'm still working on it. My
> > weight in the full squat snatch is less than my power snatch. I can
> > clean way more than I can jerk - my best jerk is 115 kgs - about 255
> > lbs.
>
> Besides weights and style, I'm in similar situation. I can't do
> squat snatch, I can clean more than I can bent-press or jerk, so I'm
> interested how do you plan to deal with the situation.
>
> My plan for the moment is to squat less often and do "supports" in
> bottom position of overhead squat for time. To finish myself I plan on
> doing low heavy dumbbell swings. Once I'm good at "supports" I plan to
> switch to drop-snatching for reps.

My plan is simply to squat snatch more. I'm more concerned with getting
shape for baseball and just general shape anyhow.

I do the following:

Monday and Friday (5-8 sets of low reps in each)
Squat Snatch
C&J
Rotate monthly one of
altitude drops from 36-48" box
vertical jumps
'shock' jumps from 18-30" box
jump-ups onto box
Hi-pulls (snatch grip Mon and clean grip Fri)
Front Squat

Wednesday
Split Snatch or power snatch
Power clean & power jerk
OH squats
Back squat
Deadlift or RDL

I basically am working on attenuation - what is the focus - and training
more like I was learning something. So I normally will focus on locking
the bar back and getting under it for the squat snatch. I think your
idea is just fine, but I tried the drop snatching and isometric supports
and it didn't do it for me. I think in my case the powerlifting
background causes me no end of grief which you don't have to deal with.
So it should work.

--
Keith

In article <dkkml29psujvimaq4qp6ivh2n9116abqmh@4ax.com>,
JMW <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

> Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >I broke free maybe 70% of the time. I was one of the fastest on the
> >team and my coach always started me on the bottom if given a choice.
> >The reason is it is more points. You get points to break away and
> >then more for the takedown. A reversal I think was only one point.
>
> Reversal = 2
> Escape = 1
> Takedown = 2
>
> Or so it was 30 years ago. According to a Wikipedia article, they no
> longer award points for escapes.

In freestyle there is between 1 and 5 points for a takedown. Points for
a reversal - no points for an escape. The new rules implemented three
years ago are great for encouraging an attacking style.

--
Keith

Dnia 2006-11-15 Hobbes napisa³(a):
> In article <ejfjtb$2bb$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > My suckage is major...
>> >
>> > I'm power snatching or split snatching just under bodyweight - about 200
>> > lbs. I can't do a full squat snatch yet, but I'm still working on it. My
>> > weight in the full squat snatch is less than my power snatch. I can
>> > clean way more than I can jerk - my best jerk is 115 kgs - about 255
>> > lbs.
>>
>> Besides weights and style, I'm in similar situation. I can't do
>> squat snatch, I can clean more than I can bent-press or jerk, so I'm
>> interested how do you plan to deal with the situation.
>>
>> My plan for the moment is to squat less often and do "supports" in
>> bottom position of overhead squat for time. To finish myself I plan on
>> doing low heavy dumbbell swings. Once I'm good at "supports" I plan to
>> switch to drop-snatching for reps.
>
> My plan is simply to squat snatch more. I'm more concerned with getting
> shape for baseball and just general shape anyhow.
>
> I do the following:
>
> Monday and Friday (5-8 sets of low reps in each)
> Squat Snatch
> C&J
> Rotate monthly one of
> altitude drops from 36-48" box
> vertical jumps
> 'shock' jumps from 18-30" box

If I can ask, why those jumps?

> jump-ups onto box
> Hi-pulls (snatch grip Mon and clean grip Fri)
> Front Squat
>
> Wednesday
> Split Snatch or power snatch
> Power clean & power jerk
> OH squats
> Back squat
> Deadlift or RDL
>
> I basically am working on attenuation - what is the focus - and training
> more like I was learning something. So I normally will focus on locking
> the bar back and getting under it for the squat snatch. I think your
> idea is just fine, but I tried the drop snatching and isometric supports
> and it didn't do it for me. I think in my case the powerlifting
> background causes me no end of grief which you don't have to deal with.
> So it should work.

I hope so. I assume (maybe wrongly) that my strength to get the snatch
I want is more or less all right, but my flexibility and skill are
holding me back. If my strength is bad, it's in the catch position, so
that's the reasoning for isometric holds.

Thanks for your comments and program. You do plenty of assistance.
I'll think about one-armed deadlifts and one-armed curl-grip squats
(one holds a barbell in the lockout curl position and squats). At the
moment I'll stay with what I do, but in case I will do no progress,
I'll try to fit those somewhere in my schedule and see what happenes.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Hobbes wrote:
> "Curt" wrote:
> > Shute wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I started doing Step-Ups Andrzej. You where right about them being a
> > > functional exercise. I didn't feel them at all in the quads. I
> > > felt them a lot in the ankles and other parts of the legs. Hopefully
> > > basic exercises like these will help me to get strength back in my
> > > legs.
> >
> > None other than Paul Anderson recommended free squats as part of any
> > exercise routine.
> >
> > And this was a guy who, reportedly, could handle 10 reps with 800.
> > Zoinks!
>
> Virtually all olympic weightlifters do squats every workout. But they do
> them after the classic lifts.
>
> While Paul Anderson reportedly did a pile in squats nowadays guys less
> than half his weight are lifting more in the snatch and c&j. Even in his
> day Kono and a number of other lifters were more impressive in the
> olympic lifts. Anderson was about strength, not speed/strength.

I'm sure that's true. And as much as I write about bodybuilding, I am a
great fan of Olympic lifting as well. Lee James struck my imagination
immediately (and obviously as we share the same last name) when I was a
teenager and he was competing in the Olympics. I remember sitting in
front of the TV recording the events on a cassette recorder.

> Keith

--
Curt