Train routine

Hi all

I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.

Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
definitely stronger.

Thanks in advance.

"Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all
>
> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>
> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
> definitely stronger.
>
> Thanks in advance.

All of the routines on this page have been proven by powerlifters I have met
personally. They all work. A lot of them have downloadable excel sheets so
you can plug in the amount you want to lift and it will fill in all of the
workouts for you.
http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/routines.html

"Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all
>
> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>
> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
> definitely stronger.
>
> Thanks in advance.

IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm

It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
must-read on the subject of strength, particularly strength without big
gains in size although it does address that, too.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:661oemF2i3kd5U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi all
>>
>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>>
>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
>> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
>> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
>> definitely stronger.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>
> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a must-read
> on the subject of strength, particularly strength without big gains in
> size although it does address that, too.
>
Does it address the commission you make on that crap?
strength without big gains in size??
you are so full of shit

> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>

On Apr 7, 5:30 pm, Ray Pachinko <rui.pach...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>
> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
> definitely stronger.
>
> Thanks in advance.

http://strength-training.wikidot.com...ining-routines

Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi all
>>
>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>>
>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
>> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
>> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
>> definitely stronger.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm

So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
world class expert on strength?

> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
> must-read on the subject of strength,

Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.

> particularly strength without big
> gains in size although it does address that, too.

How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
fortune on it yourself...

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2tdtc5-jdt.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
> Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
>> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine,
>>> which
>>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
>>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>>>
>>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
>>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I
>>> wouldn't
>>> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per
>>> week.
>>> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
>>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge
>>> but
>>> definitely stronger.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The
>> People!"
>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>
> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
> world class expert on strength?

Go on the DragonDoor web site and read the praise for this and for his
PTP monthly newsletter from quite a few world-class lifters.

**************************
As an editor for Joe Weider's Flex magazine, Jim Wright is recognized as
one of the world's premier authorities on strength training. Jim is
raving about Pavel's Power to the People! Here's more of what he had to
say:

"Whether you're young or old, a beginner or an elite athlete, training
in your room or in the most high tech facility, if there was only one
book I could recommend to help you reach your ultimate physical
potential, this would be it.
Simple, concise and truly reader friendly, this amazing book contains it
all-everything you need to know-what exercises (only two!), how to do
them (unique detailed information you'll find nowhere else), and why.
Follow its advice and, believe it or not, you'll be stronger and more
injury-resistant immediately. I guarantee it. I only wish I'd had a book
like this when I first began training.
Follow this program for three months and you'll not only be amazed but
hooked. It is the ultimate program for "Everyman" AND Woman! I thought I
knew a lot with a Ph.D. and 40 years of training experience...but I
learned a lot and it's improved my training significantly."


And how about this from World Masters Powerlifting champion and Parrillo
Performance Press editor, Marty Gallagher:

"Pavel Tsatsouline has burst onto the American health and fitness scene
like a Russian cyclone. He razes the sacred temples of fitness
complacency and smugness with his revolutionary concepts and ideas.

If you want a new and innovative approach to the age old dilemma of
physical transformation, you've struck the mother-lode."


Or this, from "Arnie's" camp: "Pavel and his book are the best imports
from Russia since Siberian Ginseng! A fountain of information... an
elixir for the body." -Fairfax Hackley, Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
Martial Arts Seminar Director


**************************

>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>
> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.

That's not worthy of a response - you can do better, I'm sure.

>> particularly strength without big
>> gains in size although it does address that, too.
>
> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
> fortune on it yourself...

I'm not the person to ask about how to lose your hair.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:662rsaF2iqrteU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2tdtc5-jdt.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>> Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
>>> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
>>>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
>>>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>>>>
>>>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
>>>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I wouldn't
>>>> mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4 days per week.
>>>> Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
>>>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge but
>>>> definitely stronger.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
>>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>
>> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
>> world class expert on strength?
>
> Go on the DragonDoor web site and read the praise for this and for his PTP
> monthly newsletter from quite a few world-class lifters.
>
> **************************
> As an editor for Joe Weider's Flex magazine, Jim Wright is recognized as
> one of the world's premier authorities on strength training. Jim is raving
> about Pavel's Power to the People! Here's more of what he had to say:
>
> "Whether you're young or old, a beginner or an elite athlete, training in
> your room or in the most high tech facility, if there was only one book I
> could recommend to help you reach your ultimate physical potential, this
> would be it.
> Simple, concise and truly reader friendly, this amazing book contains it
> all-everything you need to know-what exercises (only two!), how to do them
> (unique detailed information you'll find nowhere else), and why.
> Follow its advice and, believe it or not, you'll be stronger and more
> injury-resistant immediately. I guarantee it. I only wish I'd had a book
> like this when I first began training.
> Follow this program for three months and you'll not only be amazed but
> hooked. It is the ultimate program for "Everyman" AND Woman! I thought I
> knew a lot with a Ph.D. and 40 years of training experience...but I
> learned a lot and it's improved my training significantly."
>

This reads like the hype you give to beginners to buy the new book that will
give you all the "secrets" for 'amazing strength" and "impress your
girlfriends"!! Boring crap

>
> And how about this from World Masters Powerlifting champion and Parrillo
> Performance Press editor, Marty Gallagher:
>
> "Pavel Tsatsouline has burst onto the American health and fitness scene
> like a Russian cyclone. He razes the sacred temples of fitness complacency
> and smugness with his revolutionary concepts and ideas.
>
> If you want a new and innovative approach to the age old dilemma of
> physical transformation, you've struck the mother-lode."
>
>
> Or this, from "Arnie's" camp: "Pavel and his book are the best imports
> from Russia since Siberian Ginseng! A fountain of information... an elixir
> for the body." -Fairfax Hackley, Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic Martial
> Arts Seminar Director
>
>
> **************************
>
>>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>>
>> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>
> That's not worthy of a response - you can do better, I'm sure.
>
>>> particularly strength without big
>>> gains in size although it does address that, too.
>>
>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>> fortune on it yourself...
>
> I'm not the person to ask about how to lose your hair.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>>
>> --
>> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
>
>

Dnia 2008-04-09 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2tdtc5-jdt.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>
>>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The
>>> People!"
>>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>
>> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
>> world class expert on strength?
>
> Go on the DragonDoor web site and read the praise for this and for his
> PTP monthly newsletter from quite a few world-class lifters.
>
> **************************
> As an editor for Joe Weider's Flex magazine, Jim Wright is recognized as
> one of the world's premier authorities on strength training. Jim is

Doesn't count. Besides, he seems to praise Pavel's "all around fitness"
approach, not strength training expertise.

[...]
> And how about this from World Masters Powerlifting champion and Parrillo
> Performance Press editor, Marty Gallagher:
>
> "Pavel Tsatsouline has burst onto the American health and fitness scene
> like a Russian cyclone. He razes the sacred temples of fitness
> complacency and smugness with his revolutionary concepts and ideas.
>
> If you want a new and innovative approach to the age old dilemma of
> physical transformation, you've struck the mother-lode."

This guy would count, if he actually said a thing about strength
training according to Pavel's "IYHO Bible". He didn't.

> Or this, from "Arnie's" camp: "Pavel and his book are the best imports
> from Russia since Siberian Ginseng! A fountain of information... an
> elixir for the body." -Fairfax Hackley, Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
> Martial Arts Seminar Director

What do Arnold Schwarzenegger classic martial arts seminar director (even
if uppercased everywhere) does know about strength training?

>>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>>
>> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>
> That's not worthy of a response - you can do better, I'm sure.

That's the truth. Pavel is strictly American phenomenon, and Americans
suck majorly at strength sports. You guys can run, though.

>>> particularly strength without big
>>> gains in size although it does address that, too.
>>
>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>> fortune on it yourself...
>
> I'm not the person to ask about how to lose your hair.

I'm sure you can do better than that.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hrhuc5-g38.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
> Dnia 2008-04-09 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
>> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:2tdtc5-jdt.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>>
>>>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The
>>>> People!"
>>>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>>
>>> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>>> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become
>>> a
>>> world class expert on strength?
>>
>> Go on the DragonDoor web site and read the praise for this and for
>> his
>> PTP monthly newsletter from quite a few world-class lifters.
>>
>> **************************
>> As an editor for Joe Weider's Flex magazine, Jim Wright is recognized
>> as
>> one of the world's premier authorities on strength training. Jim is
>
> Doesn't count. Besides, he seems to praise Pavel's "all around
> fitness"
> approach, not strength training expertise.
>
> [...]
>> And how about this from World Masters Powerlifting champion and
>> Parrillo
>> Performance Press editor, Marty Gallagher:
>>
>> "Pavel Tsatsouline has burst onto the American health and fitness
>> scene
>> like a Russian cyclone. He razes the sacred temples of fitness
>> complacency and smugness with his revolutionary concepts and ideas.
>>
>> If you want a new and innovative approach to the age old dilemma of
>> physical transformation, you've struck the mother-lode."
>
> This guy would count, if he actually said a thing about strength
> training according to Pavel's "IYHO Bible". He didn't.
>
>> Or this, from "Arnie's" camp: "Pavel and his book are the best
>> imports
>> from Russia since Siberian Ginseng! A fountain of information... an
>> elixir for the body." -Fairfax Hackley, Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
>> Martial Arts Seminar Director
>
> What do Arnold Schwarzenegger classic martial arts seminar director
> (even
> if uppercased everywhere) does know about strength training?
>
>>>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>>>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>>>
>>> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>>
>> That's not worthy of a response - you can do better, I'm sure.
>
> That's the truth. Pavel is strictly American phenomenon, and
> Americans
> suck majorly at strength sports. You guys can run, though.
>
>>>> particularly strength without big
>>>> gains in size although it does address that, too.
>>>
>>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>>> fortune on it yourself...
>>
>> I'm not the person to ask about how to lose your hair.
>
> I'm sure you can do better than that.

I tire of this.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2008-04-09 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hrhuc5-g38.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
[...]
>>>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>>>> fortune on it yourself...
>>>
>>> I'm not the person to ask about how to lose your hair.
>>
>> I'm sure you can do better than that.
>
> I tire of this.

One could hope.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:6641otF2igansU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hrhuc5-g38.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>> Dnia 2008-04-09 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
>>> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:2tdtc5-jdt.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>>>
>>>>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The
>>>>> People!"
>>>>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>>>
>>>> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>>>> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
>>>> world class expert on strength?
>>>
>>> Go on the DragonDoor web site and read the praise for this and for his
>>> PTP monthly newsletter from quite a few world-class lifters.
>>>
>>> **************************
>>> As an editor for Joe Weider's Flex magazine, Jim Wright is recognized as
>>> one of the world's premier authorities on strength training. Jim is
>>
>> Doesn't count. Besides, he seems to praise Pavel's "all around fitness"
>> approach, not strength training expertise.
>>
>> [...]
>>> And how about this from World Masters Powerlifting champion and Parrillo
>>> Performance Press editor, Marty Gallagher:
>>>
>>> "Pavel Tsatsouline has burst onto the American health and fitness scene
>>> like a Russian cyclone. He razes the sacred temples of fitness
>>> complacency and smugness with his revolutionary concepts and ideas.
>>>
>>> If you want a new and innovative approach to the age old dilemma of
>>> physical transformation, you've struck the mother-lode."
>>
>> This guy would count, if he actually said a thing about strength
>> training according to Pavel's "IYHO Bible". He didn't.
>>
>>> Or this, from "Arnie's" camp: "Pavel and his book are the best imports
>>> from Russia since Siberian Ginseng! A fountain of information... an
>>> elixir for the body." -Fairfax Hackley, Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic
>>> Martial Arts Seminar Director
>>
>> What do Arnold Schwarzenegger classic martial arts seminar director (even
>> if uppercased everywhere) does know about strength training?
>>
>>>>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>>>>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>>>>
>>>> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>>>
>>> That's not worthy of a response - you can do better, I'm sure.
>>
>> That's the truth. Pavel is strictly American phenomenon, and Americans
>> suck majorly at strength sports. You guys can run, though.
>>
>>>>> particularly strength without big
>>>>> gains in size although it does address that, too.
>>>>
>>>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>>>> fortune on it yourself...
>>>
>>> I'm not the person to ask about how to lose your hair.
>>
>> I'm sure you can do better than that.
>
> I tire of this.

Of course you do. When you stumble across someone who makes you look a fool
and a charlatan. When you have no answers. I would tire of it very quickly
as well.

>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
>>
>> --
>> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
>
>

Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:

> Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisał(a):
>> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
>>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
>>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>>>
>>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
>>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I
>>> wouldn't mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4
>>> days per week. Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
>>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge
>>> but definitely stronger.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>
> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
> world class expert on strength?

Oh goody, another Internet guru death match. How amazingly interesting.

>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>
> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.

If you can read English, are interested in learning about strength
training, and haven't heard of Pavel Tsatsouline then you need to get
out more. I wouldn't trust the training advice of any person that
hasn't at least *heard* of Pavel.

It's hard to argue that Pavel's main gift isn't a supreme grasp of
marketing, but it is also true that an amazing amount of real life
athletes and strongmen think highly of Pavel.

On the other hand, I wouldn't consider "Power To The People" as any sort
of Bible on strength training. Quite frankly, it isn't nearly
comprehensive enough. However, it is a fairly interesting read on max
strength training, with a workable training program.

It is a pretty entertaining read suitable for anyone starting out. The
book is short and straightforward and the training program it outlines
is sensible. It is particularly useful if you have a limited amount of
time and a limited amount of equipment for training.

While I would admit that Steve's constant references to Pavel's books
and methods sometimes gets a bit old, however, it is hard to argue
against "Power to the People" as a workout choice for the original
poster. The "I am not doing bodybuilding" and "I don't want to get huge
but I definitely want to get stronger" are basically synonymous with
Pavel.

As an aside I tend to suggest a PTTP style workout to my friends that
become interested in "trying out" strength training because the plan is
simple and effective and the book is an engaging read. However, I would
certainly be interested in suggestions from the group for something that
could replace PTTP.

>> particularly strength without big gains in size although it does
>> address that, too.
>
> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
> fortune on it yourself...

Now that's funny.

Jason

In article <873apuyhgy.fsf@xmission.com>,
Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com> wrote:

> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisa©©(a):
> >> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Hi all
> >>>
> >>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
> >>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
> >>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
> >>>
> >>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
> >>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I
> >>> wouldn't mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4
> >>> days per week. Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
> >>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge
> >>> but definitely stronger.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
> >> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
> >
> > So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
> > remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
> > world class expert on strength?
>
> Oh goody, another Internet guru death match. How amazingly interesting.
>
> >> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
> >> must-read on the subject of strength,
> >
> > Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>
> If you can read English, are interested in learning about strength
> training, and haven't heard of Pavel Tsatsouline then you need to get
> out more. I wouldn't trust the training advice of any person that
> hasn't at least *heard* of Pavel.
>
> It's hard to argue that Pavel's main gift isn't a supreme grasp of
> marketing, but it is also true that an amazing amount of real life
> athletes and strongmen think highly of Pavel.
>
> On the other hand, I wouldn't consider "Power To The People" as any sort
> of Bible on strength training. Quite frankly, it isn't nearly
> comprehensive enough. However, it is a fairly interesting read on max
> strength training, with a workable training program.
>
> It is a pretty entertaining read suitable for anyone starting out. The
> book is short and straightforward and the training program it outlines
> is sensible. It is particularly useful if you have a limited amount of
> time and a limited amount of equipment for training.
>
> While I would admit that Steve's constant references to Pavel's books
> and methods sometimes gets a bit old, however, it is hard to argue
> against "Power to the People" as a workout choice for the original
> poster. The "I am not doing bodybuilding" and "I don't want to get huge
> but I definitely want to get stronger" are basically synonymous with
> Pavel.
>
> As an aside I tend to suggest a PTTP style workout to my friends that
> become interested in "trying out" strength training because the plan is
> simple and effective and the book is an engaging read. However, I would
> certainly be interested in suggestions from the group for something that
> could replace PTTP.
>
> >> particularly strength without big gains in size although it does
> >> address that, too.
> >
> > How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
> > fortune on it yourself...
>
> Now that's funny.
>
> Jason

If strength is the goal than it is pretty easy to find replacements.

For powerlifting, just google powerlifting and Sheiko. It would also
work good for deadlifting.

For olympic lifting I would still be tempted by the qwa.org programs.

--
Keith

Dnia 2008-04-09 Jason Earl napisa³(a):
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisa³(a):
>>>
>>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
>>> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>
>> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
>> world class expert on strength?
>
> Oh goody, another Internet guru death match. How amazingly interesting.

I'm not a guru. I don't claim to be a strength expert, conditioning
expert, teaching expert or any other kind of expert, though I also have
very average looks, strength and conditioning. Oh, I'm rather wordy
too, and I can be cheeky, so maybe I should?

>>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>>
>> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>
> If you can read English, are interested in learning about strength
> training, and haven't heard of Pavel Tsatsouline then you need to get
> out more.

I know about Pavel, but I'm not strong. Coincidence?

> I wouldn't trust the training advice of any person that
> hasn't at least *heard* of Pavel.

You vastly overrate his influence. Strong people come from non English
speaking countries. Do you expect that every trainer of Chinese Oly
lifters ever heard about recent fitness guru in America? If so, why do
you think that Pavel's false claim of having a title of Master of Sports
wasn't contested for so many years? Even in Russia people didn't know
that Pavel built such a reputation overseas, and they reacted when they
understood that there are real money to be gained there (or at least
that is how I remember it read). IOW - Pavel is "somebody" in America.
Everywhere else he is pretty much nobody.

> It's hard to argue that Pavel's main gift isn't a supreme grasp of
> marketing, but it is also true that an amazing amount of real life
> athletes and strongmen think highly of Pavel.
>
> On the other hand, I wouldn't consider "Power To The People" as any sort
> of Bible on strength training. Quite frankly, it isn't nearly
> comprehensive enough. However, it is a fairly interesting read on max
> strength training, with a workable training program.

Sure. I wouldn't try to contest such a view on things.

> It is a pretty entertaining read suitable for anyone starting out. The
> book is short and straightforward and the training program it outlines
> is sensible. It is particularly useful if you have a limited amount of
> time and a limited amount of equipment for training.
>
> While I would admit that Steve's constant references to Pavel's books
> and methods sometimes gets a bit old, however, it is hard to argue
> against "Power to the People" as a workout choice for the original
> poster. The "I am not doing bodybuilding" and "I don't want to get huge
> but I definitely want to get stronger" are basically synonymous with
> Pavel.
>
> As an aside I tend to suggest a PTTP style workout to my friends that
> become interested in "trying out" strength training because the plan is
> simple and effective and the book is an engaging read. However, I would
> certainly be interested in suggestions from the group for something that
> could replace PTTP.

As a way of doing some lifting in the free time PTTP is probably fine,
or maybe even very good. But who actually won anything real by using
this method? Definitely not Pavel.

>>> particularly strength without big gains in size although it does
>>> address that, too.
>>
>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>> fortune on it yourself...
>
> Now that's funny.

I'm simply irritated by Pavel's claimed omniscience. He's an expert on
just about everything, so why not hair loss?

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.com> writes:

> In article <873apuyhgy.fsf@xmission.com>,
> Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com> wrote:
>
>> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>> > Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisa©©(a):
>> >> "Ray Pachinko" <rui.pacheco@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:479236bd-79ce-470c-a7a5-5685747b9483@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> >>> Hi all
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm starting to get a bit tired of my current exercise routine, which
>> >>> I've been following for the past 3 months. Can you point me towards
>> >>> any resources? Books are good, websites would be better.
>> >>>
>> >>> Some detail on what I'm looking for: I've been going to the gym 3
>> >>> times a week, except when work or injury don't allow me to. I
>> >>> wouldn't mind and I'm probably looking into increasing that to 4
>> >>> days per week. Tiring the body relaxes the mind and I need that.
>> >>> Also, I'm not doing bodybuilding. I am not looking to become huge
>> >>> but definitely stronger.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks in advance.
>> >>
>> >> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The People!"
>> >> Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>> >
>> > So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>> > remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become a
>> > world class expert on strength?
>>
>> Oh goody, another Internet guru death match. How amazingly interesting.
>>
>> >> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>> >> must-read on the subject of strength,
>> >
>> > Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>>
>> If you can read English, are interested in learning about strength
>> training, and haven't heard of Pavel Tsatsouline then you need to get
>> out more. I wouldn't trust the training advice of any person that
>> hasn't at least *heard* of Pavel.
>>
>> It's hard to argue that Pavel's main gift isn't a supreme grasp of
>> marketing, but it is also true that an amazing amount of real life
>> athletes and strongmen think highly of Pavel.
>>
>> On the other hand, I wouldn't consider "Power To The People" as any sort
>> of Bible on strength training. Quite frankly, it isn't nearly
>> comprehensive enough. However, it is a fairly interesting read on max
>> strength training, with a workable training program.
>>
>> It is a pretty entertaining read suitable for anyone starting out. The
>> book is short and straightforward and the training program it outlines
>> is sensible. It is particularly useful if you have a limited amount of
>> time and a limited amount of equipment for training.
>>
>> While I would admit that Steve's constant references to Pavel's books
>> and methods sometimes gets a bit old, however, it is hard to argue
>> against "Power to the People" as a workout choice for the original
>> poster. The "I am not doing bodybuilding" and "I don't want to get huge
>> but I definitely want to get stronger" are basically synonymous with
>> Pavel.
>>
>> As an aside I tend to suggest a PTTP style workout to my friends that
>> become interested in "trying out" strength training because the plan is
>> simple and effective and the book is an engaging read. However, I would
>> certainly be interested in suggestions from the group for something that
>> could replace PTTP.
>>
>> >> particularly strength without big gains in size although it does
>> >> address that, too.
>> >
>> > How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>> > fortune on it yourself...
>>
>> Now that's funny.
>>
>> Jason
>
> If strength is the goal than it is pretty easy to find replacements.

Just for the record, I wasn't the one that said the PTTP was some sort
of Strength Training Bible. Of course there are replacements for it.

> For powerlifting, just google powerlifting and Sheiko. It would also
> work good for deadlifting.

Sure, or you could google for Westside as well. There are plenty of
programs. What I like about PTTP (for beginners) is that it is dead
simple, it takes almost no time, and it still manages to be fairly
effective (at least for beginners like me and the folks I work out with,
I have no idea how it would work with someone like you .

> For olympic lifting I would still be tempted by the qwa.org programs.

That's new to me. Thanks for the info.

Jason

Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:

> Dnia 2008-04-09 Jason Earl napisał(a):
>> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Dnia 2008-04-08 Steve Freides napisał(a):
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, the Bible for getting stronger is Pavel's "Power To The
>>>> People!" Link: http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm
>>>
>>> So how many champions he trained? Or maybe he himself reached some
>>> remarkable successes, so he doesn't need successful pupils to become
>>> a world class expert on strength?
>>
>> Oh goody, another Internet guru death match. How amazingly
>> interesting.
>
> I'm not a guru. I don't claim to be a strength expert, conditioning
> expert, teaching expert or any other kind of expert, though I also
> have very average looks, strength and conditioning. Oh, I'm rather
> wordy too, and I can be cheeky, so maybe I should?

You've got all of the makings of a very fine Internet guru, and I mean
that in the very best of ways .

Seriously though, in this particular case what should it matter how many
champions Pavel has trained? The guy asked for a book (or website) on
getting stronger without necessarily getting bigger and Steve recommend
PTTP. Of course, he went completely overboard in his praise of what is
basically a glorified pamphlet, but it is a pretty entertaining read,
and the workout it covers does fit the criteria.

>>>> It was the first book I read on weight lifting and it's still a
>>>> must-read on the subject of strength,
>>>
>>> Surprising amount of very strong people never heard of it.
>>
>> If you can read English, are interested in learning about strength
>> training, and haven't heard of Pavel Tsatsouline then you need to get
>> out more.
>
> I know about Pavel, but I'm not strong. Coincidence?

I need more data to be able to tell for sure, but I will admit that I
also know about Pavel and I am not strong either .

On the other hand, Steve knows about Pavel as well, and he *is* strong,
especially when you consider how tiny he is and how much of his body
mass is comprised of hair.

>> I wouldn't trust the training advice of any person that hasn't at
>> least *heard* of Pavel.
>
> You vastly overrate his influence. Strong people come from non
> English speaking countries. Do you expect that every trainer of
> Chinese Oly lifters ever heard about recent fitness guru in America?
> If so, why do you think that Pavel's false claim of having a title of
> Master of Sports wasn't contested for so many years? Even in Russia
> people didn't know that Pavel built such a reputation overseas, and
> they reacted when they understood that there are real money to be
> gained there (or at least that is how I remember it read). IOW -
> Pavel is "somebody" in America. Everywhere else he is pretty much
> nobody.

It can easily be argued that the English speaking market is the largest
fitness market on the planet (it certainly is the one with the most
money) and Pavel has done very well in the English speaking market.

Of course, even if he is somewhat of a star in the fitness market in the
U.S. he's still basically a nobody. Even so, at least here he's twice
as big as any other "fitness guru" from the former Eastern Bloc
nations.

Of course, if that's the criteria you probably come in fourth after
Sheiko and Smolov. .

>> It's hard to argue that Pavel's main gift isn't a supreme grasp of
>> marketing, but it is also true that an amazing amount of real life
>> athletes and strongmen think highly of Pavel.
>>
>> On the other hand, I wouldn't consider "Power To The People" as any
>> sort of Bible on strength training. Quite frankly, it isn't nearly
>> comprehensive enough. However, it is a fairly interesting read on
>> max strength training, with a workable training program.
>
> Sure. I wouldn't try to contest such a view on things.

Pavel's point of view doesn't seem so outlandish when it isn't coming
from one of his obvious cheerleaders. Pavel's "books" are generally
less than 100 pages, and are about 20% ads. Calling PTTP a "Strength
Training Bible" is ridiculous. In fact, ridiculous doesn't even begin
to cover it, it's actually "redonkulous." Redonkulous is a word I
invented on the spot that means "so far beyond mere ridiculous that it
is redonkulous."

If Steve would have said, "I think PTTP is an interesting way to get
strong without adding a lot of mass" we'd all have to shut up. After
all, Steve is pretty strong and he clearly hasn't added a lot of mass.

>> It is a pretty entertaining read suitable for anyone starting out.
>> The book is short and straightforward and the training program it
>> outlines is sensible. It is particularly useful if you have a
>> limited amount of time and a limited amount of equipment for
>> training.
>>
>> While I would admit that Steve's constant references to Pavel's books
>> and methods sometimes gets a bit old, however, it is hard to argue
>> against "Power to the People" as a workout choice for the original
>> poster. The "I am not doing bodybuilding" and "I don't want to get
>> huge but I definitely want to get stronger" are basically synonymous
>> with Pavel.
>>
>> As an aside I tend to suggest a PTTP style workout to my friends that
>> become interested in "trying out" strength training because the plan
>> is simple and effective and the book is an engaging read. However, I
>> would certainly be interested in suggestions from the group for
>> something that could replace PTTP.
>
> As a way of doing some lifting in the free time PTTP is probably fine,
> or maybe even very good. But who actually won anything real by using
> this method? Definitely not Pavel.

I don't remember the original poster mentioning any contests.

>>>> particularly strength without big gains in size although it does
>>>> address that, too.
>>>
>>> How about hair loss? If Pavel missed this topic, you could make a
>>> fortune on it yourself...
>>
>> Now that's funny.
>
> I'm simply irritated by Pavel's claimed omniscience. He's an expert on
> just about everything, so why not hair loss?

Pavel actually claims a lot less than you think. His books are even
self-deprecating in many aspects. The problem is that you almost
certainly get most of your Pavel information funneled through Freides.
Don't get me wrong, I like Steve, but I sometimes suspect he has a
tattoo of Pavel on his ass.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Jason

Dnia 2008-04-09 Jason Earl napisa³(a):
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Dnia 2008-04-09 Jason Earl napisa³(a):
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh goody, another Internet guru death match. How amazingly
>>> interesting.
>>
>> I'm not a guru. I don't claim to be a strength expert, conditioning
>> expert, teaching expert or any other kind of expert, though I also
>> have very average looks, strength and conditioning. Oh, I'm rather
>> wordy too, and I can be cheeky, so maybe I should?
>
> You've got all of the makings of a very fine Internet guru, and I mean
> that in the very best of ways .

So let's just hope I'll not end up attacking people, instead of their
views... I have nothing against Steve personally. I rather admire him,
and I don't even think that he's in this business to make a buck. I
honestly believe, that he's there (and here) to genuinely help people.

But I don't care for Pavel one bit. Hobbes (just to not reach far for
examples) has twice the knowledge and credentials of the likes of him.

> Seriously though, in this particular case what should it matter how many
> champions Pavel has trained?

Well, if you are an experienced trainer, you generally should be able to
meet some talented kids. If you are never lucky this way, you have no
right to be considered an expert. Unjust to some, but life tends to be
tough this way.

> The guy asked for a book (or website) on
> getting stronger without necessarily getting bigger and Steve recommend
> PTTP. Of course, he went completely overboard in his praise of what is
> basically a glorified pamphlet, but it is a pretty entertaining read,
> and the workout it covers does fit the criteria.

Fine. I don't even think that it's a bad advice.

>>> If you can read English, are interested in learning about strength
>>> training, and haven't heard of Pavel Tsatsouline then you need to get
>>> out more.
>>
>> I know about Pavel, but I'm not strong. Coincidence?
>
> I need more data to be able to tell for sure, but I will admit that I
> also know about Pavel and I am not strong either .
>
> On the other hand, Steve knows about Pavel as well, and he *is* strong,
> especially when you consider how tiny he is and how much of his body
> mass is comprised of hair.

He did pretty good job (or marvelous job, if you take in account where
he started), but his success IMHO had very little to do with training
philosophy he followed, and everything to do with methodical execution.
There is no reason to blow Pavel's bubble even more out of proportions,
as far as I see it.

>> You vastly overrate his influence. Strong people come from non
>> English speaking countries. Do you expect that every trainer of
>> Chinese Oly lifters ever heard about recent fitness guru in America?
>> If so, why do you think that Pavel's false claim of having a title of
>> Master of Sports wasn't contested for so many years? Even in Russia
>> people didn't know that Pavel built such a reputation overseas, and
>> they reacted when they understood that there are real money to be
>> gained there (or at least that is how I remember it read). IOW -
>> Pavel is "somebody" in America. Everywhere else he is pretty much
>> nobody.
>
> It can easily be argued that the English speaking market is the largest
> fitness market on the planet (it certainly is the one with the most
> money) and Pavel has done very well in the English speaking market.

And you think I won't agree? Why?

> Of course, even if he is somewhat of a star in the fitness market in the
> U.S. he's still basically a nobody. Even so, at least here he's twice
> as big as any other "fitness guru" from the former Eastern Bloc
> nations.
>
> Of course, if that's the criteria you probably come in fourth after
> Sheiko and Smolov. .

Pavel did, iirc. He wrote an article for some prominent powerlifting
periodical, where he introduced Smolov's program. There were some
controversies around it, but from what I seem to recall, he was fine
there. Anyway, big part of his fame comes from transplanting
successful ideas.

>> Sure. I wouldn't try to contest such a view on things.
>
> Pavel's point of view doesn't seem so outlandish when it isn't coming
> from one of his obvious cheerleaders. Pavel's "books" are generally
> less than 100 pages, and are about 20% ads. Calling PTTP a "Strength
> Training Bible" is ridiculous. In fact, ridiculous doesn't even begin
> to cover it, it's actually "redonkulous." Redonkulous is a word I
> invented on the spot that means "so far beyond mere ridiculous that it
> is redonkulous."
>
> If Steve would have said, "I think PTTP is an interesting way to get
> strong without adding a lot of mass" we'd all have to shut up. After
> all, Steve is pretty strong and he clearly hasn't added a lot of mass.

Sure. This would shut me up all right.

[...]
> Pavel actually claims a lot less than you think. His books are even
> self-deprecating in many aspects. The problem is that you almost
> certainly get most of your Pavel information funneled through Freides.
> Don't get me wrong, I like Steve, but I sometimes suspect he has a
> tattoo of Pavel on his ass.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Even if we are talking about a whole bunch of other guys with the same
tattoo? Even if they believe that you need to pull the weights down or
that their form of static stretching is vastly superior because
Aristotle said so? Well, it simply depends how much brainwashing
prompts a spontaneous emission between your orbitals.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
newsl50d5-in.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...

> So let's just hope I'll not end up attacking people, instead of their
> views... I have nothing against Steve personally. I rather admire
> him,
> and I don't even think that he's in this business to make a buck. I
> honestly believe, that he's there (and here) to genuinely help people.
>
> But I don't care for Pavel one bit. Hobbes (just to not reach far for
> examples) has twice the knowledge and credentials of the likes of him.

Keith could _now_ teach me to deadlift, but I don't believe Keith could
have done for me what PTP did, which is explain strength, explain why it
is desirable, explain how strength is different than just gaining muscle
size, and inspire me to become stronger than I was. Yes, other books
exist on the subject but if you focus on that, you miss the point. I am
a college music professor who did no sports in life until my mid 20's,
and even then it was just running for fitness. If it were not for PTP,
I would not be a strength athlete. To me, that is priceless. Whether
or not any of you believe or don't believe this is irrelevant - I can't
say for sure that it's true, but my own impression is that I tried
lifting several times before and got hurt, got bored, or didn't get any
appreciable result. PTP resonated, and continues to resonate, with me.
Whether it will have the same effect on anyone else, I cannot say, but I
do not feel the need to apologize for my enthusiasm, although I do get
the feeling that my enthusiasm is felt to be somewhere between
unwarranted and unwelcomed - that's life, I guess, as I have no
intention of calling them any way other than as I see them.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> writes:

> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> newsl50d5-in.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>
>> So let's just hope I'll not end up attacking people, instead of their
>> views... I have nothing against Steve personally. I rather admire
>> him, and I don't even think that he's in this business to make a
>> buck. I honestly believe, that he's there (and here) to genuinely
>> help people.
>>
>> But I don't care for Pavel one bit. Hobbes (just to not reach far
>> for examples) has twice the knowledge and credentials of the likes of
>> him.
>
> Keith could _now_ teach me to deadlift, but I don't believe Keith
> could have done for me what PTP did, which is explain strength,
> explain why it is desirable, explain how strength is different than
> just gaining muscle size, and inspire me to become stronger than I
> was. Yes, other books exist on the subject but if you focus on that,
> you miss the point. I am a college music professor who did no sports
> in life until my mid 20's, and even then it was just running for
> fitness. If it were not for PTP, I would not be a strength athlete.
> To me, that is priceless. Whether or not any of you believe or don't
> believe this is irrelevant - I can't say for sure that it's true, but
> my own impression is that I tried lifting several times before and got
> hurt, got bored, or didn't get any appreciable result. PTP resonated,
> and continues to resonate, with me. Whether it will have the same
> effect on anyone else, I cannot say, but I do not feel the need to
> apologize for my enthusiasm, although I do get the feeling that my
> enthusiasm is felt to be somewhere between unwarranted and unwelcomed
> - that's life, I guess, as I have no intention of calling them any way
> other than as I see them.

I would like to apologize for my comments on your enthusiasm. I realize
that it is somewhat unusual for people on USENET to apologize, and it
probably looks like I am trying to be sarcastic, but I would like to
apologize nonetheless.

My original intent was to point out that your advice was not at all out
of line, but I (as is usual for me) I got a bit out of hand. For that,
I sincerely apologize. I certainly didn't want you to feel like I
believed your enthusiasm is unwelcome or unwarranted. Enthusiasm rocks.
The world needs more enthusiasm. I completely understand the enthusiasm
a book can generate if it changes your life, and in that respect
comparing PTTP to the Bible is not at all ridiculous.

Besides, I hadn't actually looked at PTTP for some time. I had
forgotten that it actually covers a wide range of strength training
topics. As a beginner you almost certainly could do worse. In fact,
most beginners do *far* worse.

Jason

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:6658rqF2j0hn5U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> newsl50d5-in.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
>
>> So let's just hope I'll not end up attacking people, instead of their
>> views... I have nothing against Steve personally. I rather admire him,
>> and I don't even think that he's in this business to make a buck. I
>> honestly believe, that he's there (and here) to genuinely help people.
>>
>> But I don't care for Pavel one bit. Hobbes (just to not reach far for
>> examples) has twice the knowledge and credentials of the likes of him.
>
> Keith could _now_ teach me to deadlift, but I don't believe Keith could
> have done for me what PTP did, which is explain strength, explain why it
> is desirable, explain how strength is different than just gaining muscle
> size, and inspire me to become stronger than I was. Yes, other books exist
> on the subject but if you focus on that, you miss the point. I am a
> college music professor who did no sports in life until my mid 20's, and
> even then it was just running for fitness. If it were not for PTP, I
> would not be a strength athlete. To me, that is priceless. Whether or
> not any of you believe or don't believe this is irrelevant - I can't say
> for sure that it's true, but my own impression is that I tried lifting
> several times before and got hurt, got bored, or didn't get any
> appreciable result. PTP resonated, and continues to resonate, with me.
> Whether it will have the same effect on anyone else, I cannot say, but I
> do not feel the need to apologize for my enthusiasm, although I do get the
> feeling that my enthusiasm is felt to be somewhere between unwarranted and
> unwelcomed - that's life, I guess, as I have no intention of calling them
> any way other than as I see them.

I give you all the respect and admiration you deserve. You have made an art
form out of gaining strength without gaining mass. No one could have
achieved that result as well as you have. In fact you look like a scrawny
kid who never touched a weight in his life

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> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
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