weight lifting program for Tennis

Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program to
do during the tennis season? Thanks.

Blakesq

"blakesq" <blakesq@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165101361.286339.25910@16g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program
> to
> do during the tennis season? Thanks.
>
> Blakesq

Either do a general strength and conditioning program for yourself, or
seek out the advice of a good tennis coach and have him/her design a
program specifically for you. For almost every player below the elite
level, just gaining some basic strength and conditioning will help the
game as well as help prevent injury, and something specific to tennis
isn't really necessary.

And the above goes for most other sports as well - get a sport-specific
coach to design your training, including your lifting, or stick to the
basics - most people don't do the basic lifting and conditioning and are
the worse for it.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

General lifting, but also cable/weight work, along the trajectory of the
tennis stroke.
Something my HoloBarre is quite useful for.
Ask jmw here for his opinion on this.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"blakesq" <blakesq@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165101361.286339.25910@16g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program to
> do during the tennis season? Thanks.
>
> Blakesq
>
>

Steve Freides wrote:
> "blakesq" wrote

> > Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program
> > to do during the tennis season? Thanks.
> >
> > Blakesq
>
> Either do a general strength and conditioning program for yourself, or
> seek out the advice of a good tennis coach and have him/her design a
> program specifically for you. For almost every player below the elite
> level, just gaining some basic strength and conditioning will help the
> game as well as help prevent injury, and something specific to tennis
> isn't really necessary.
>
> And the above goes for most other sports as well - get a sport-specific
> coach to design your training, including your lifting, or stick to the
> basics - most people don't do the basic lifting and conditioning and are
> the worse for it.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

Bill Pearl has a phone book available that offers tons of sports
specific routines. Perhaps it's available at your local library. I was
looking at that book when I visited the local Barnes & Noble.

The Amazon link while I'm at it:

<http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Stronger-Weight-Training-Sports/dp/0936070382/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_2_txt/002-1560302-6975262>


And, yeah, Google's your friend:

_The Ultimate Guide to Weight Training for Tennis_
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Weigh.../dp/1932549250


And from there you should be able to see links for _Power Tennis
Training_ and _Complete Conditioning For Tennis_. Say, doesn't Martina
have a tennis and exercise book available as well?

Plus, no shipping and handling required:

http://www.wellness.ma/sports-fitnes...h-training.htm

Best of luck with your sport.

--
Curt

Dnia 2006-12-02 blakesq napisa³(a):
> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program to
> do during the tennis season? Thanks.

Yes, someone can do it. However, if you want to get good programs more
often, you should give more details. How many times a week you can do
weight training? How much training stimulus you can take (rough
estimation is fine)? What are your primary goals when it comes to
weight lifting?

But generally, do explosive lifts as often as you can spare. Go for
reps, but no more than 5. Do try to squeeze more lifts within your
training session. Do not bother as much about reps as about the total
number of lifts. The more muscle mass you think you need, the more
often you should perform slow exercises. If you mainly need more
strength, go for explosive lifts and do not bother about slow stuff.
It will only eat your recovery ability. Do some amount of unilateral
work, to balance your body. Start with weak side and repeat with your
strong side. Actually, I believe that you should focus on unilateral
work, because it will give you a lot of core stability, which should
help.

Try some variations of clean and snatch, with probably hang clean and
clean grip snatch being ones of the safer versions. Do one-armed
version of both. They work fine. Try explosive pushups. Do normal
bread and butter squats. Mix it a bit and perform it as often as you
can, without burning yourself out.

For example, make a list of six exercises which you believe to be good
for you. Take a dice. Toss it. Do thusly selected exercise until you
"have enough". Next day do the same. Or simply do them one a day,
every day.

Just an idea, but I believe that it will serve your goals better than
typical weight training routine.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> General lifting, but also cable/weight work, along the trajectory of
> the tennis stroke.
> Something my HoloBarre is quite useful for.
> Ask jmw here for his opinion on this.

You are here just to troll aren't you?

>
> "blakesq" <blakesq@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165101361.286339.25910@16g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
>> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program
>> to do during the tennis season? Thanks.
>>
>> Blakesq



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
> http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28

I may be wrong, but it looks like nonsense to me. Best way to spoil
ones technique and slow him down, regardless of increased injury risk.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:07:44 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>> http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28
>
>I may be wrong, but it looks like nonsense to me. Best way to spoil
>ones technique and slow him down, regardless of increased injury risk.

As you say, you may be wrong.

Technique is acquired through practice on the court (or against a
backboard) and with guidance from a coach. Technique is not acquired
through lifting weights or stretching rubber.

Resistive bands and tubing do not slow you down; they can help to
increase explosive power as resistance increases as the tubing is
stretched.

Elastic resistance training (ERT) is being used for conditioning
purposes with tennis players and many other kinds of athletes.
So are free weights, bodyweight exercises, jump ropes, etc.

Just as you select the right amount of iron for specific exercises
when you lift, you choose the correct thickness of tubing with ERT.
Correct technique and correct amount of resistance help to reduce the
risk of injury.

Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:07:44 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>>> http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28
>>
>>I may be wrong, but it looks like nonsense to me. Best way to spoil
>>ones technique and slow him down, regardless of increased injury risk.
>
> As you say, you may be wrong.
>
> Technique is acquired through practice on the court (or against a
> backboard) and with guidance from a coach. Technique is not acquired
> through lifting weights or stretching rubber.

But it can be spoiled by above mentioned. If you do significant number
of reps of "sport specific" movement, your painstakingly honed motor
recruitment patterns can get binned.

> Resistive bands and tubing do not slow you down; they can help to
> increase explosive power as resistance increases as the tubing is
> stretched.

Slow training against resistance will make you slow. Especially, when
one trains "sport specific" movement. How fast you can "serve" against
bands? Much slower than real stuff. And the trainee will learn to
"muscle" the movement, which is bad news.

> Elastic resistance training (ERT) is being used for conditioning
> purposes with tennis players and many other kinds of athletes.
> So are free weights, bodyweight exercises, jump ropes, etc.

I agree. Equipment means nothing.

> Just as you select the right amount of iron for specific exercises
> when you lift, you choose the correct thickness of tubing with ERT.

I agree. Equipment is really not important.

> Correct technique and correct amount of resistance help to reduce the
> risk of injury.

Maybe. Anyway, why slow training of "sport specifics" should help?
From what I read, body is really smart when it comes to executing
complicated patterns and one should really concentrate on honing the
real stuff as much as it makes sense. Body will also limit the speed
of limb to the point of safety, which is limited by *antagonist* muscle
ability to stop it short of injury, so increasing strength of agonist
muscles may result in slower movements on the playing field.

What makes sense to me is training *qualities*, like speed strength for
example, in general. What makes sense to me, is balancing development
of muscles all around the body of trainee, to prevent injuries. What
makes sense to me, is training some specifics of sport performance in a
way which is safer and more effective, like for example some explosive
lifts can be treated as a substitute for jumping, but without much
joint trauma.

But I can be wrong. No matter, that's what I think.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

What I am actually looking for is a weight lifting program for Tennis.
Something to help with my serves, forehand, backhand, and movement on
the court, as well as stamina. I am really hoping for a program,
stating exercises, and numbers of sets. I make it to the gym about two
to three times a week, and I play twice a week.

Blakesq



blakesq wrote:
> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program to
> do during the tennis season? Thanks.
>
> Blakesq

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> Slow training against resistance will make you slow. Especially, when
> one trains "sport specific" movement. How fast you can "serve" against
> bands? Much slower than real stuff. And the trainee will learn to
> "muscle" the movement, which is bad news.
>
<snip>

> But I can be wrong. No matter, that's what I think.
>


You're not wrong.

Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:07:44 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>> <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>>>> http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28
>>>
>>> I may be wrong, but it looks like nonsense to me. Best way to spoil
>>> ones technique and slow him down, regardless of increased injury
>>> risk.
>>
>> As you say, you may be wrong.
>>
>> Technique is acquired through practice on the court (or against a
>> backboard) and with guidance from a coach. Technique is not acquired
>> through lifting weights or stretching rubber.
>
> But it can be spoiled by above mentioned. If you do significant
> number of reps of "sport specific" movement, your painstakingly honed
> motor recruitment patterns can get binned.
>
>> Resistive bands and tubing do not slow you down; they can help to
>> increase explosive power as resistance increases as the tubing is
>> stretched.
>
> Slow training against resistance will make you slow. Especially, when
> one trains "sport specific" movement. How fast you can "serve"
> against bands? Much slower than real stuff. And the trainee will
> learn to "muscle" the movement, which is bad news.

That's a neat turn of phrase !!!

[...]

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Dnia 2006-12-03 blakesq napisa³(a):
> What I am actually looking for is a weight lifting program for Tennis.
> Something to help with my serves, forehand, backhand, and movement on
> the court, as well as stamina. I am really hoping for a program,
> stating exercises, and numbers of sets. I make it to the gym about two
> to three times a week, and I play twice a week.

Are you dedicated enough to buy a dumbbell? If yes, we could work
something effective based on assumed fact that you can dedicate 15 min
a day. 15 min a day are better than 30 min every other day, which in
turns is better than an hour every two days.

If you aren't dedicated enough to do that, go to a gym twice a week.
Still, IMHO, best thing you can probably do in a commercial gym is
dumbbell work. Plenty of swings, snatches, cleans, and so on. In case
your gym prohibits overhead lifting (I heard that it happens) you have
the machines. In this case go through a machine circuit with short
rest intervals. Pair pulling movements with pushing movements and go
for density, which means that you try to do a lot of work within the
time you have available. Try to stress yourself, but do not kill
yourself. Go by feel. I won't give you any reps and sets. I tell you
to learn by experience when you go too far.

Consider getting outside on your off days. Do a lot of agility drills.
For example, sprint for 20 steps, fall to the ground and jump up for
20, and that is one rep. Do twenty of this reps. Or find two trees in
a park and run around them. Fast run one way, sharp left turn, fast
run the other way, sharp right turn. That's one rep. Do twenty. Find
a staircase and sprint up, walk down. That's one rep. I think that
you get the idea by now.

Try to do something every day. If you have no time to do something
real, simulate doing something. If you can't even simulate, pretend
that you are simulating doing something. Every day.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"blakesq" <blakesq@hotmail.com> schreef:

> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program to
> do during the tennis season? Thanks.

Try whatever this particular girl is doing;

http://www.nieuwsinfo.nl/images/12003ausopen367.jpg

Might work...

----
Pete

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> schreef:

> Try to do something every day. If you have no time to do something
> real, simulate doing something. If you can't even simulate, pretend
> that you are simulating doing something. Every day.

I do that when i run out of meds....

----
Pete

Bully wrote:
> Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> > "blakesq" wrote

> >> Can some of you tennis players give me a good
> >> weight lifting program to do during the tennis
> >> season? Thanks.
> >
> > General lifting, but also cable/weight work, along
> > the trajectory of the tennis stroke.
> >
> > Something my HoloBarre is quite useful for.

Yo, PV, where can I purchase a HoloBarre? First, how much do they run?

And, yes, of course I Googled!

- "Kristofer Hogg, ms, rd HoloBarre Rehab/Fitness/Stretching Systems,
Yonkers, NY"
- "Turn your doorway into a fitness center with the Holobarre System."
- "In it simplest form, it consists of a telescoping stainless steel
bar"

> > Ask jmw here for his opinion on this.

Ah! Here we have it, imo. The crossroads (kindasortabutprollynot).

Will you, PV, please 'splain HoloBarre for the layman, discuss where
the treatment is at at the current time, and - in general - give any
readers who may be interested (I count myself as one) the low down on
your creation?

[Please note: I am honestly not yanking any chains. I am not attempting
to disrespect you. I am not looking to put you on the spot. I am
wondering if these words should be within parentheses or these
brackets. Hmm. WHATEVER. )]

Or will you, like John Williams, give the short shrift with something
very much like an excuse for not engaging in productive
conversation/discussion? Shame on JMW (ymmv, imo, etc.), but...

> You are here just to troll aren't you?

I'll have to agree with Bully if something positive isn't forthcoming.

Otoh, who the heck am I, right? ;o)

--
Curt

Pete wrote:
> "blakesq" <blakesq@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > Can some of you tennis players give me a good
> > weight lifting program to do during the tennis
> > season? Thanks.
>
> Try whatever this particular girl is doing;
>
> http://www.nieuwsinfo.nl/images/12003ausopen367.jpg
>
> Might work...

I'd say that's at least 90% Mother Nature, Pete. ;o) God BLESS Her on
her creations, eh?

> Pete

--
Curt

On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:47:22 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
>> Try to do something every day. If you have no time to do something
>> real, simulate doing something. If you can't even simulate, pretend
>> that you are simulating doing something. Every day.
>
>I do that when i run out of meds....
>

Increase the stack...

Yes!

Dnia 2006-12-03 Curt napisa³(a):
> Pete wrote:
>> "blakesq" <blakesq@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>
>> > Can some of you tennis players give me a good
>> > weight lifting program to do during the tennis
>> > season? Thanks.
>>
>> Try whatever this particular girl is doing;
>>
>> http://www.nieuwsinfo.nl/images/12003ausopen367.jpg
>>
>> Might work...
>
> I'd say that's at least 90% Mother Nature, Pete. ;o) God BLESS Her on
> her creations, eh?

If she achieved 90% of her present level, Pete wouldn't be able to
Google her out. She would be nobody among other nobodies.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

blakesq wrote:
> What I am actually looking for is a weight lifting program for Tennis.
> Something to help with my serves, forehand, backhand, and movement on
> the court, as well as stamina. I am really hoping for a program,
> stating exercises, and numbers of sets. I make it to the gym about
> two to three times a week, and I play twice a week.
>
> Blakesq
>
>
>
> blakesq wrote:
>> Can some of you tennis players give me a good weight lifting program
>> to do during the tennis season? Thanks.
>>
>> Blakesq

You know what would improve your tennis immeasurably? Playing more tennis!

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 14:28:58 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:07:44 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>>>> http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28
>>>
>>>I may be wrong, but it looks like nonsense to me. Best way to spoil
>>>ones technique and slow him down, regardless of increased injury risk.
>>
>> As you say, you may be wrong.
>>
>> Technique is acquired through practice on the court (or against a
>> backboard) and with guidance from a coach. Technique is not acquired
>> through lifting weights or stretching rubber.
>
>But it can be spoiled by above mentioned. If you do significant number
>of reps of "sport specific" movement, your painstakingly honed motor
>recruitment patterns can get binned.

Number of reps, sets, resistance of band(s), direction of movement,
etc. are part of an overall exercise plan that should be individually
tailored to an athlete.

>> Resistive bands and tubing do not slow you down; they can help to
>> increase explosive power as resistance increases as the tubing is
>> stretched.
>
>Slow training against resistance will make you slow. Especially, when
>one trains "sport specific" movement. How fast you can "serve" against
>bands? Much slower than real stuff. And the trainee will learn to
>"muscle" the movement, which is bad news.

OK. Tell all the track athletes and football players to stop using
chutes and sleds and other types of resistance equipment.

The idea is not to match the speed with which one serves, hits
forehands, etc. The idea is to improve general conditioning, balance,
stability, agility, and power and to address the needs of muscles
involved in a particular sport. For example, tennis involves
multidirectional lower-body movements, aggressive trunk rotation, and
large concentric and eccentric stresses to the rotator cuff and
scapular muscles. There are high levels of muscle activity in the
wrist and forearm so training these muscles is needed to prevent elbow
and wrist injury. Training the rotator cuff and upper back muscles
are highly recommended. There are base exercises and sports
simulation exercises which tennis players are using with elastic
resistance tubing.

Someone who lifts heavy weights but does not know how to play tennis
might make the mistake of muscling his/her movements. That would
occur regardless of the specific sport involved. Accomplished tennis
players who understand how to execute shots are benefiting from using
resistance bands and tubing and are not sacrificing the efficiency of
their strokes in the process.


>
>> Elastic resistance training (ERT) is being used for conditioning
>> purposes with tennis players and many other kinds of athletes.
>> So are free weights, bodyweight exercises, jump ropes, etc.
>
>I agree. Equipment means nothing.
>
>> Just as you select the right amount of iron for specific exercises
>> when you lift, you choose the correct thickness of tubing with ERT.
>
>I agree. Equipment is really not important.
>
>> Correct technique and correct amount of resistance help to reduce the
>> risk of injury.
>
>Maybe. Anyway, why slow training of "sport specifics" should help?
Ask the many different types of athletes who use resistance training
in one form or another (tubing, clutes, sleds, etc.).

I don't know what you mean by "slow." Sometimes it's useful to vary
the speed of a resistive movement. This can easily be done with
resistance bands or tubing.
>From what I read, body is really smart when it comes to executing
>complicated patterns and one should really concentrate on honing the
>real stuff as much as it makes sense. Body will also limit the speed
>of limb to the point of safety, which is limited by *antagonist* muscle
>ability to stop it short of injury, so increasing strength of agonist
>muscles may result in slower movements on the playing field.

One of the many benefits of ERT is that, in many cases, it can be used
to improve the balance of opposing muscle forces. Base exercises are
especially useful in this respect. ERT emphasizes using base
exercises as well as exercises that simulate movement patterns
inherent in specific sports
>
>What makes sense to me is training *qualities*, like speed strength for
>example, in general. What makes sense to me, is balancing development
>of muscles all around the body of trainee, to prevent injuries. What
>makes sense to me, is training some specifics of sport performance in a
>way which is safer and more effective, like for example some explosive
>lifts can be treated as a substitute for jumping, but without much
>joint trauma.

Vertical jumping is often trained with rubber bands or tubing.
>
>But I can be wrong. No matter, that's what I think.

There's often no harm in being wrong as long as you're open to the
possibility that you might be wrong. Is it more important to be
correct or to avoid the ignominy of being regarded as someone who
changes his mind?

http://www.lifelineusa.com/articles.cfm?articleid=18

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/...0X16-5,00.html

http://www.humankinetics.com/product...sbn=0736037837

Note that I woulda *never* brought this up. Blame it on jmw.

It is a little subtle, and therein lies some of the marketing problems.
Not to mention trying to market anything legit in an industry that has
essentially zero credibility in almost every aspect.

It is an *extensive* discussion, relying on basic principles of physics,
physiology and geometry to get the most out of it.
Andrzej is one here who would greatly appreciate it, based on a thread he
started sometime ago, about various techniques of exercise.
For example, ask yourself, Why have calisthenics virtually disappeared as a
vehicle for fitness?
The answer to that question also answers another question: What ushered in
Techno-Fitness, with all the machines, gadgets, bullshit?
The HB is the bridge between those two questions.

Not a replacement for weights, altho it can substitute *very well* for the
non-lifter, and, on rainy days, even for the lifter.
Not a replacement for running, altho it can provide an aerobic workout that
*dwarfs* the caloric burn of running, or any aerobic activity on earth.
It exploits certain subtleties of the force-velocity curve.
It also works very well w/ weights, and in fact one of it's versions is a
modified Smith machine, which is remarkable in that this feature is almost
inherent in the HB's design. Not the doorway version, tho, altho this is
also a possibility.
An excellent apparatus for rehab. Ask me....
Etc.
Hellishly expensive, slated, within the next year (god willing), to appear
in Architectural Digest, NY Times, etc. Already appeared in Dance Magazine,
who wanted to do a joint effort on a formal stretching video. Actually
installed one in the corporate offices of Dance Magazine, when they were at
Lincoln Center.
Difficult to produce--an all-machined product, very expensive raw materials,
which means I'm probably digging my own financial grave.
Actually, digging it deeper....

But at any rate, if you really want to discuss it, email me, as it really is
interesting from virtually every pov, and if you want to see it, demo it,
ahm rahcheer in Yonkers. Give me a snail mail, I'll send old lit.
Mi casa es su casa.
If you like it and want one, I'll build/give you one for free, to beta-test.
But after it hits the market, you gotsta pay, muthafuckas, altho you will
get a N'Yawker/MFW discount.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165168921.655096.161440@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...
Bully wrote:
> Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> > "blakesq" wrote

> >> Can some of you tennis players give me a good
> >> weight lifting program to do during the tennis
> >> season? Thanks.
> >
> > General lifting, but also cable/weight work, along
> > the trajectory of the tennis stroke.
> >
> > Something my HoloBarre is quite useful for.

Yo, PV, where can I purchase a HoloBarre? First, how much do they run?

And, yes, of course I Googled!

- "Kristofer Hogg, ms, rd HoloBarre Rehab/Fitness/Stretching Systems,
Yonkers, NY"
- "Turn your doorway into a fitness center with the Holobarre System."
- "In it simplest form, it consists of a telescoping stainless steel
bar"

> > Ask jmw here for his opinion on this.

Ah! Here we have it, imo. The crossroads (kindasortabutprollynot).

Will you, PV, please 'splain HoloBarre for the layman, discuss where
the treatment is at at the current time, and - in general - give any
readers who may be interested (I count myself as one) the low down on
your creation?

[Please note: I am honestly not yanking any chains. I am not attempting
to disrespect you. I am not looking to put you on the spot. I am
wondering if these words should be within parentheses or these
brackets. Hmm. WHATEVER. )]

Or will you, like John Williams, give the short shrift with something
very much like an excuse for not engaging in productive
conversation/discussion? Shame on JMW (ymmv, imo, etc.), but...

> You are here just to troll aren't you?

I'll have to agree with Bully if something positive isn't forthcoming.

Otoh, who the heck am I, right? ;o)

--
Curt

Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-12-03 Curt napisa³(a):
[...]

re Pete's offering of

http://www.nieuwsinfo.nl/images/12003ausopen367.jpg

> > I'd say that's at least 90% Mother Nature, Pete. ;o)
> > God BLESS Her on her creations, eh?
>
> If she achieved 90% of her present level, Pete wouldn't
> be able to Google her out. She would be nobody among
> other nobodies.

Is that true, Andrzej?

http://sportsline.com/tennis/rankings/wta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_Williams

She's been a pro tennis player since 1995 (at age 14!) and, although
she's ranked 95 currently, from what I see in Wiki, she was ranked 21
by the Women's Tennis Association in 1999.

The 100 ranked female tennis player? I was "able to Google her out."
Likewise, I suspect that Serena, had she only achieved 90% of her
accomplishments, would also have been someone Pete would have been able
to find with a search engine's help.

How'd you phrase it? "But I can be wrong. No matter, that's what I
think."

Regardless, Serena's physique is courtesy of her parents. Boom! I'm
guessing she'd look as she looks even if she'd never played tennis,
never spoke to a trainer, never did anything but ate and breathed.

Again, I'm guessing that maybe ten percent of her physique/appearance
may've come from her participation in tennis - weight training,
supplements, competitions, etc.

Does she even lift weights? Or did she "just" train (and train and
train) on the courts?

http://www.serenawilliams.com/

> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

--
Curt

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

> Note that I woulda *never* brought this up.

heh )

> Blame it on jmw.

Hey, THAT's a given. ;o)

> It is a little subtle, and therein lies some of the marketing problems.
> Not to mention trying to market anything legit in an industry that has
> essentially zero credibility in almost every aspect.
>
> It is an *extensive* discussion, relying on basic principles of physics,
> physiology and geometry to get the most out of it.
> Andrzej is one here who would greatly appreciate it, based on a thread he
> started sometime ago, about various techniques of exercise.
> For example, ask yourself, Why have calisthenics virtually disappeared asa
> vehicle for fitness?
> The answer to that question also answers another question: What ushered in
> Techno-Fitness, with all the machines, gadgets, bullshit?
> The HB is the bridge between those two questions.
>
> Not a replacement for weights, altho it can substitute *very well* for the
> non-lifter, and, on rainy days, even for the lifter.
> Not a replacement for running, altho it can provide an aerobic workout that
> *dwarfs* the caloric burn of running, or any aerobic activity on earth.
> It exploits certain subtleties of the force-velocity curve.
> It also works very well w/ weights, and in fact one of it's versions is a
> modified Smith machine, which is remarkable in that this feature is almost
> inherent in the HB's design. Not the doorway version, tho, altho this is
> also a possibility.
> An excellent apparatus for rehab. Ask me....

I will.

> Etc.
> Hellishly expensive, slated, within the next year (god willing), to appear
> in Architectural Digest, NY Times, etc. Already appeared in Dance Magazine,

As I Googled I noticed several Holobarre-Dance Magazine references, but
I believe the articles got zapped. Iirc, it was courtesy of
findarticles somethingsomething.

> who wanted to do a joint effort on a formal stretching video. Actually
> installed one in the corporate offices of Dance Magazine, when they were at
> Lincoln Center.
> Difficult to produce--an all-machined product, very expensive raw materials,
> which means I'm probably digging my own financial grave.
> Actually, digging it deeper....
>
> But at any rate, if you really want to discuss it, email me, as it reallyis

Will do.

> interesting from virtually every pov, and if you want to see it, demo it,
> ahm rahcheer in Yonkers. Give me a snail mail, I'll send old lit.

Will do that, too.

> Mi casa es su casa.
> If you like it and want one, I'll build/give you one for free, to beta-test.

That's a generous offer. You're sure about that?

Regardless, you offered more than JMW's aforementioned short shrift.
Kudos. And, thus, I must disagree with Bully on the "You are here just
to troll aren't you?" comment he made previously. You, like others, are
simply sick of JMW and his tactics. I can appreciate that.

Still, don't poison things for yourself by going overboard on the J Dub
Hatin'. (Hmm. That's probably too Rap-oriented for your tastes.)
Because it's a waste of time, imo. And, yes, I do know juuust a little
about wasting time on ol' Emmy, your bestestest buddy and mine
apparently.

Not that he hasn't reciprocated (more like initiated, imo):

http://www.rustyiron.net/trollist.htm
http://www.rustyiron.net/curtpics.htm
http://www.rustyiron.net/curt_wts.htm
http://www.rustyiron.net/curtinfl.jpg
http://www.rustyiron.net/curt_rab.htm
http://www.rustyiron.net/trollz.htm and the corresponding posts/threads

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....c6f6b8db7a673a

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....ae5749d27416d4


> But after it hits the market, you gotsta pay, muthafuckas, altho you will
> get a N'Yawker/MFW discount.

Ha!

> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Thanks for the reply.

[...]

> "Curt" wrote
> Bully wrote:
> > Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> > > "blakesq" wrote
>
> > >> Can some of you tennis players give me a good
> > >> weight lifting program to do during the tennis
> > >> season? Thanks.
> > >
> > > General lifting, but also cable/weight work, along
> > > the trajectory of the tennis stroke.
> > >
> > > Something my HoloBarre is quite useful for.
>
> Yo, PV, where can I purchase a HoloBarre? First, how much do they run?
>
> And, yes, of course I Googled!
>
> - "Kristofer Hogg, ms, rd HoloBarre Rehab/Fitness/Stretching Systems,
> Yonkers, NY"
> - "Turn your doorway into a fitness center with the Holobarre System."
> - "In it simplest form, it consists of a telescoping stainless steel
> bar"
>
> > > Ask jmw here for his opinion on this.
>
> Ah! Here we have it, imo. The crossroads (kindasortabutprollynot).
>
> Will you, PV, please 'splain HoloBarre for the layman, discuss where
> the treatment is at at the current time, and - in general - give any
> readers who may be interested (I count myself as one) the low down on
> your creation?
>
> [Please note: I am honestly not yanking any chains. I am not attempting
> to disrespect you. I am not looking to put you on the spot. I am
> wondering if these words should be within parentheses or these
> brackets. Hmm. WHATEVER. )]
>
> Or will you, like John Williams, give the short shrift with something
> very much like an excuse for not engaging in productive
> conversation/discussion? Shame on JMW (ymmv, imo, etc.), but...
>
> > You are here just to troll aren't you?
>
> I'll have to agree with Bully if something positive isn't forthcoming.
>
> Otoh, who the heck am I, right? ;o)

--
Curt

<gedaloda@thisguy.com> wrote in message
news:5036n21k5fcvmg5k6m04u2a0brhbd0mons@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 14:28:58 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
> <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>>> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:07:44 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dnia 2006-12-03 gedaloda@thisguy.com napisa³(a):
>>>>> http://www.lifelineusa.com/products....4&productid=28
>>>>
>>>>I may be wrong, but it looks like nonsense to me. Best way to spoil
>>>>ones technique and slow him down, regardless of increased injury
>>>>risk.
>>>
>>> As you say, you may be wrong.
>>>
>>> Technique is acquired through practice on the court (or against a
>>> backboard) and with guidance from a coach. Technique is not acquired
>>> through lifting weights or stretching rubber.
>>
>>But it can be spoiled by above mentioned. If you do significant
>>number
>>of reps of "sport specific" movement, your painstakingly honed motor
>>recruitment patterns can get binned.
>
> Number of reps, sets, resistance of band(s), direction of movement,
> etc. are part of an overall exercise plan that should be individually
> tailored to an athlete.
>
>>> Resistive bands and tubing do not slow you down; they can help to
>>> increase explosive power as resistance increases as the tubing is
>>> stretched.
>>
>>Slow training against resistance will make you slow. Especially, when
>>one trains "sport specific" movement. How fast you can "serve"
>>against
>>bands? Much slower than real stuff. And the trainee will learn to
>>"muscle" the movement, which is bad news.
>
> OK. Tell all the track athletes and football players to stop using
> chutes and sleds and other types of resistance equipment.
>
> The idea is not to match the speed with which one serves, hits
> forehands, etc. The idea is to improve general conditioning, balance,
> stability, agility, and power and to address the needs of muscles
> involved in a particular sport. For example, tennis involves
> multidirectional lower-body movements, aggressive trunk rotation, and
> large concentric and eccentric stresses to the rotator cuff and
> scapular muscles. There are high levels of muscle activity in the
> wrist and forearm so training these muscles is needed to prevent elbow
> and wrist injury. Training the rotator cuff and upper back muscles
> are highly recommended. There are base exercises and sports
> simulation exercises which tennis players are using with elastic
> resistance tubing.
>
> Someone who lifts heavy weights but does not know how to play tennis
> might make the mistake of muscling his/her movements. That would
> occur regardless of the specific sport involved. Accomplished tennis
> players who understand how to execute shots are benefiting from using
> resistance bands and tubing and are not sacrificing the efficiency of
> their strokes in the process.
>
>
>>
>>> Elastic resistance training (ERT) is being used for conditioning
>>> purposes with tennis players and many other kinds of athletes.
>>> So are free weights, bodyweight exercises, jump ropes, etc.
>>
>>I agree. Equipment means nothing.
>>
>>> Just as you select the right amount of iron for specific exercises
>>> when you lift, you choose the correct thickness of tubing with ERT.
>>
>>I agree. Equipment is really not important.
>>
>>> Correct technique and correct amount of resistance help to reduce
>>> the
>>> risk of injury.
>>
>>Maybe. Anyway, why slow training of "sport specifics" should help?
> Ask the many different types of athletes who use resistance training
> in one form or another (tubing, clutes, sleds, etc.).
>
> I don't know what you mean by "slow." Sometimes it's useful to vary
> the speed of a resistive movement. This can easily be done with
> resistance bands or tubing.
>>From what I read, body is really smart when it comes to executing
>>complicated patterns and one should really concentrate on honing the
>>real stuff as much as it makes sense. Body will also limit the speed
>>of limb to the point of safety, which is limited by *antagonist*
>>muscle
>>ability to stop it short of injury, so increasing strength of agonist
>>muscles may result in slower movements on the playing field.
>
> One of the many benefits of ERT is that, in many cases, it can be used
> to improve the balance of opposing muscle forces. Base exercises are
> especially useful in this respect. ERT emphasizes using base
> exercises as well as exercises that simulate movement patterns
> inherent in specific sports
>>
>>What makes sense to me is training *qualities*, like speed strength
>>for
>>example, in general. What makes sense to me, is balancing development
>>of muscles all around the body of trainee, to prevent injuries. What
>>makes sense to me, is training some specifics of sport performance in
>>a
>>way which is safer and more effective, like for example some explosive
>>lifts can be treated as a substitute for jumping, but without much
>>joint trauma.
>
> Vertical jumping is often trained with rubber bands or tubing.
>>
>>But I can be wrong. No matter, that's what I think.
>
> There's often no harm in being wrong as long as you're open to the
> possibility that you might be wrong. Is it more important to be
> correct or to avoid the ignominy of being regarded as someone who
> changes his mind?
>
> http://www.lifelineusa.com/articles.cfm?articleid=18
>
> http://www.runnersworld.com/article/...0X16-5,00.html
>
> http://www.humankinetics.com/product...sbn=0736037837

I think you're quite correct with your point of view, and I tried to
express something similar in my response on this thread. General
improvements in strength and condition are the way to go for most
people, and such practice will _not_ confuse motor patterns as long as
you give strength and conditioning its appropriate place with your
schedule, e.g, spending perhaps 3/4 of available time on sport-specific
practice and using what's left to build strength and conditioning.
Obviously if you're in the weight room almost every day and hit the
tennis court only once a week, you could mess up your tennis groove, but
I don't think anyone is suggesting that sort of schedule.

Sprinting is a good example - most people, me included, get faster when
they train a slow lift like the squat or deadlift when they hadn't
before. Now I agree that there are few things less fun than going out
for a run of any sort right after you DL, but my sprint speed is better
now than at any point in my life, even a few hours after lifting on a DL
day, for a very simple reason - I'm stronger. I am _not_ an elite
sprinter, nor do I have ambitions to enter masters track meets, but I am
a faster sprinter without ever having tried to be one. To repeat: a
general strength and conditioning program makes the best addition to
sport-specific training for most people most of the time, and the
alternative is a carefully designed program by a sport-specific coach
(and not your personal trainer at the gym).

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Charles" <jrh@msn.com> schreef:

>>> Try to do something every day. If you have no time to do something
>>> real, simulate doing something. If you can't even simulate, pretend
>>> that you are simulating doing something. Every day.

>>I do that when i run out of meds....

> Increase the stack...

> Yes!

I have a better one...

I will create an entirely new stack!

Something the World... HAS NEVER SEEN BEFORE !!!

----
Pete

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> Try whatever this particular girl is doing;

>> http://www.nieuwsinfo.nl/images/12003ausopen367.jpg

>> Might work...

> I'd say that's at least 90% Mother Nature, Pete. ;o) God BLESS Her on
> her creations, eh?

Mother Nature at his best!

That girl has some potential...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...WiliamsAss.jpg

According to GooGle, this is her.

I have my doubts...

----
Pete