What is the Best Bicep exercise you've ever done?

"Brook" <brook_joe@blueyonder.co.uk> schreef:

> a note in agreement with you RE: the concentration curl... "works the peak
> of the bicep great" - yes. if your genetics dictate it... ie, if you have
> the ability to create that peak, it will.
> not if not.

And another thing about the peak;

The peak will come, with the right genetics, if the biceps are developed to
the max. Or are close to. Just like that teardrop in the lower/outher side
of the pectorals. There are no exercises for it. It will come if you build
enough size.

--
Pete

Pete wrote:
> "223rem" <223rem@gmail.com> schreef:
>
>> This will give you an excellent pump. See how ripped that guy is?
>> http://www.desertpride.com/catalog/images/P101.jpg
>
> WTF ?!?!?!

JOKE. Duh.

> Cool name.
>
> Remind me to order a new one.

Tom Anderson wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>
>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>
> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?

You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
up.

> Why?

Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use
your forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress
to your torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if
you do strict curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find
that you really try to be tight while doing this movement.

--
Andrzej Rosa

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Brook wrote:

> okok so maybe your right...
>
> a note in agreement with you RE: the concentration curl... "works the peak
> of the bicep great" - yes. if your genetics dictate it... ie, if you have
> the ability to create that peak, it will.
> not if not.

Concentration curls focus on the brachialis, not the biceps peak. If you
want to hit the peak you need to supinate your forearm.
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/BicepsBrachii
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachialis


>
> "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1173264468.437140.242660@t69g2000cwt.googlegr oups.com...
>> Brook wrote:
>> "Curt" wrote
>>>> Brook wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> re bicep curl machine
>>
>>>>> it feels like it will assist in my biceps peak......
>>>
>>>> You may wanna check PubMed, but every
>>>> pop fitness website I've consulted (and, ohhhh,
>>>> there are MANY) states that peak is determined
>>>> by genetics and not altered by machine nor bar
>>>> nor sand buckets nor any manner of resistance.
>>
>> Oops! How could I have erred? Looks like ABC Bodybuilding says the
>> following is great for the peak.
>>
>> http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exerc...ationcurls.htm
>>
>> Still, it's NOT flex magazine.
>>
>>>> Losing bodyfat will allow the biceps peak
>>>> you already possess to be revealed,
>>>> however it doesn't physically create that peak.
>>>
>>>> So sayeth Flex magazine. Do not doubt
>>>> The Text of Flex! ;o)
>> [...]
>>
>>> i realise that already.
>>
>> Okay.
>>
>>> but the feeling, the struggle at the top end
>>> of the rep is so hard... its gotta help a little.
>>
>> Otoh, my Magic Internet 8-Ball Pop Fitness Website Arnold Quote
>> Generator says:
>>
>> "Everyone is born with a different set of genes, including those that
>> determine muscle size and shape. Some people naturally have the
>> ability to put on great amounts of muscle mass, while others have to
>> fight for every pound. Some have long full muscle bellies, while
>> others have muscles that are shorter or less round. The kind of
>> muscles you inherit is pretty much the luck of the draw, and since you
>> can't choose your parents, you'll have to make the best of what you've
>> got."
>>
>> OtOoh, even Ahnuld believed in concentration curls. Still, if they
>> worked, then why weren't his biceps peaked equally?
>>
>>> like when you squeeze your bicep and can
>>> feel the deep pinch inside its belly... its within
>>> that range of the movement...
>>> basically, its a good feeling.. i'll let you know
>>> if i create a little peak!
>>
>> Okay.
>>
>>> btw. not enough B/F to make a difference...
>>
>> Bastard!
>>
>> --
>> Curt
>>
>
>
>

that is just some article... i for one don't use them.. however, when i
have, i feel a good contraction at the top of the movement right in my Bi.
"Sir Jackery" <roehrig@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0703070802120.4871@pc50.cs.ucda vis.edu...
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Brook wrote:
>
>> okok so maybe your right...
>>
>> a note in agreement with you RE: the concentration curl... "works the
>> peak
>> of the bicep great" - yes. if your genetics dictate it... ie, if you have
>> the ability to create that peak, it will.
>> not if not.
>
> Concentration curls focus on the brachialis, not the biceps peak. If you
> want to hit the peak you need to supinate your forearm.
> http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/BicepsBrachii
> http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachialis
>
>
>>
>> "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1173264468.437140.242660@t69g2000cwt.googlegr oups.com...
>>> Brook wrote:
>>> "Curt" wrote
>>>>> Brook wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> re bicep curl machine
>>>
>>>>>> it feels like it will assist in my biceps peak......
>>>>
>>>>> You may wanna check PubMed, but every
>>>>> pop fitness website I've consulted (and, ohhhh,
>>>>> there are MANY) states that peak is determined
>>>>> by genetics and not altered by machine nor bar
>>>>> nor sand buckets nor any manner of resistance.
>>>
>>> Oops! How could I have erred? Looks like ABC Bodybuilding says the
>>> following is great for the peak.
>>>
>>> http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exerc...ationcurls.htm
>>>
>>> Still, it's NOT flex magazine.
>>>
>>>>> Losing bodyfat will allow the biceps peak
>>>>> you already possess to be revealed,
>>>>> however it doesn't physically create that peak.
>>>>
>>>>> So sayeth Flex magazine. Do not doubt
>>>>> The Text of Flex! ;o)
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> i realise that already.
>>>
>>> Okay.
>>>
>>>> but the feeling, the struggle at the top end
>>>> of the rep is so hard... its gotta help a little.
>>>
>>> Otoh, my Magic Internet 8-Ball Pop Fitness Website Arnold Quote
>>> Generator says:
>>>
>>> "Everyone is born with a different set of genes, including those that
>>> determine muscle size and shape. Some people naturally have the
>>> ability to put on great amounts of muscle mass, while others have to
>>> fight for every pound. Some have long full muscle bellies, while
>>> others have muscles that are shorter or less round. The kind of
>>> muscles you inherit is pretty much the luck of the draw, and since you
>>> can't choose your parents, you'll have to make the best of what you've
>>> got."
>>>
>>> OtOoh, even Ahnuld believed in concentration curls. Still, if they
>>> worked, then why weren't his biceps peaked equally?
>>>
>>>> like when you squeeze your bicep and can
>>>> feel the deep pinch inside its belly... its within
>>>> that range of the movement...
>>>> basically, its a good feeling.. i'll let you know
>>>> if i create a little peak!
>>>
>>> Okay.
>>>
>>>> btw. not enough B/F to make a difference...
>>>
>>> Bastard!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Curt
>>>
>>
>>
>>

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>
>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>
>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>
>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>
> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
> up.
>
>> Why?
>
> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try
> to be tight while doing this movement.

Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely
would be!

tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Anderson wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>
>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>
>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>
>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>> up.
>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try to
>> be tight while doing this movement.
>
> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely would
> be!
>
> tom

The body would be dynamically working to balance the bar. Unless of course
you found the ideal balance point and exerted ONLY force that runs parallel
to the opposing force (gravity). It works on paper but according to
numerical analysis it is an impossibility in practice.

This is a subject that I am very ignorant in. What part of ones body
controls balance. Lever machines require no balance but freeweights do.
How do analogous exercises compare between freeweights and lever machines?

--Sir Jackery

In news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0703071716320.25736@urchin.eart h.li,
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> typed:
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>
>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>
>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>
>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>> up.
>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use
>> your forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress
>> to your torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if
>> you do strict curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find
>> that you really try to be tight while doing this movement.
>
> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it
> definitely would be!
>
> tom

Try it, you'll see !

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

Pete wrote:
> "spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> schreef:
>
>> The elbow does not have to be bent for the biceps to work hard to help you
>> pull and stabilise the weight, but that's not really the point I was
>> trying to make re: productive lifting in contrast to 'pump' lifting.
>
> Are you saying that curls for 12-15 reps are not productive?

Nope. I'm saying training for a pump is unlikely to be productive if
that is the goal each workout.

> How can they be unprodoctive?

A lot of ways, including taking time away from large multi-joint
exercises that hit the biceps among several other muscles.

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

On 6 Mar 2007 19:13:43 -0800, "Scorpio" <mwhitney@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

>On Mar 6, 10:52 pm, phitco...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>
>Gidday.
>I love doing pump classes at the gym. Best with an agressive
>instructor who likes their music loud. I realy feel the burn if the
>biceps track is fast and long. Does this help?
>
>Megan

mpegs please

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Lucas Buck wrote:

> On 6 Mar 2007 19:13:43 -0800, "Scorpio" <mwhitney@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 6, 10:52 pm, phitco...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>
>> Gidday. I love doing pump classes at the gym. Best with an agressive
>> instructor who likes their music loud. I realy feel the burn if the
>> biceps track is fast and long. Does this help?
>
> mpegs please

The youth of today! When i was a lad, we made do with plain text and
copious imagination.

tom

--
wicked wicked jungle is massive i said wicked wicked jungle is massive
well big up cos this is the incredible genral -- fabien, sniffunsnuffun
town(scotland)

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Sir Jackery wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>>
>>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>>
>>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>>
>>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>>> up.
>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try to
>>> be tight while doing this movement.
>>
>> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
>> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely
>> would be!
>
> The body would be dynamically working to balance the bar. Unless of
> course you found the ideal balance point and exerted ONLY force that
> runs parallel to the opposing force (gravity).

That's certainly what i'd try to do. It'd be madness not to. I'm not
saying i could get (or keep) the bar balanced on a knife-edge, but as long
as the centre of mass is somewhere over my palm, i won't have to exert a
moment on it.

> It works on paper but according to numerical analysis it is an
> impossibility in practice.
>
> This is a subject that I am very ignorant in.

Curt, do we have a non-sequitur of the month award?

> What part of ones body controls balance. Lever machines require no
> balance but freeweights do. How do analogous exercises compare between
> freeweights and lever machines?

Your third sentence looks like an answer to your second. Would you be at
all interested in restating your question?

Also, i don't see this mentioned, but it's really only push movements that
require balance. During a dumbbell bent-over row, as an example of a pull,
your weighted arm acts rather like a plumb-bob, with gravity acting to
keep it centred. During a dumbbell bench press, it's the opposite -
gravity is dicking with you, so you have to work to keep the weight in
line (using your delts, and levator armulae or whatever, ask an
anatomist).

tom

--
wicked wicked jungle is massive i said wicked wicked jungle is massive
well big up cos this is the incredible genral -- fabien, sniffunsnuffun
town(scotland)

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:39:33 +0000, Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li>
wrote:

>On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Sir Jackery wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>>>
>>>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>>>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>>>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>>>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try to
>>>> be tight while doing this movement.
>>>
>>> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
>>> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely
>>> would be!
>>
>> The body would be dynamically working to balance the bar. Unless of
>> course you found the ideal balance point and exerted ONLY force that
>> runs parallel to the opposing force (gravity).
>
>That's certainly what i'd try to do. It'd be madness not to. I'm not
>saying i could get (or keep) the bar balanced on a knife-edge, but as long
>as the centre of mass is somewhere over my palm, i won't have to exert a
>moment on it.

I would like to point out that curling an Olympic bar isn't for
beginners. You are going to need a fair amount of wrist and bicep
strength to complete a set. And balance can become more of a problem
if you tap your body on the low end of the curl. I think it might be
wise to try without anybody nearby just in case you lose control and
haft to let go.

Tom Anderson wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>
>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>> up.
>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try
>> to be tight while doing this movement.
>
> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
> different to a dumbbell curl.

It "feels" a bit different. It's not the same movement, and we are
splitting hairs here anyway.

> If it's not, i can see that it definitely would be!

Levering was once a popular strongman feat. You need to have a stupidly
strong wrist tendons to do it (or develop them, of course).

--
Andrzej Rosa

Tom Anderson wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Sir Jackery wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>>>
>>>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>>>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>>>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>>>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try to
>>>> be tight while doing this movement.
>>>
>>> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
>>> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely
>>> would be!
>>
>> The body would be dynamically working to balance the bar. Unless of
>> course you found the ideal balance point and exerted ONLY force that
>> runs parallel to the opposing force (gravity).
>
> That's certainly what i'd try to do.

The problem (or advantage, however you like looking at it) is that
one fails at keeping a barbell perfectly balanced. You need to use
your forearms' muscles to actively keep the balance. So they get
the workout.

> Also, i don't see this mentioned, but it's really only push movements that
> require balance.

Let's try a test. Your straight bar chinup is probably smaller than
a parallel grip chinup, which is smaller than v-grip chinup. So if
balance in pulls is not an issue, your blast-strap chinup would be
the best of them all, because you could use the most comfortable grip
position throughout a whole range of motion. But you know what? It
will probably be weaker than a straight bar chinup.

> During a dumbbell bent-over row, as an example of a pull,
> your weighted arm acts rather like a plumb-bob, with gravity acting to
> keep it centred. During a dumbbell bench press, it's the opposite -
> gravity is dicking with you, so you have to work to keep the weight in
> line (using your delts, and levator armulae or whatever, ask an
> anatomist).

All true, but you'll probably be able to one-armed row more with less
unstable implement.

--
Andrzej Rosa

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Shute wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:39:33 +0000, Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Sir Jackery wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>>>>
>>>>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>>>>> up.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>>>>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>>>>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>>>>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try to
>>>>> be tight while doing this movement.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
>>>> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely
>>>> would be!
>>>
>>> The body would be dynamically working to balance the bar. Unless of
>>> course you found the ideal balance point and exerted ONLY force that
>>> runs parallel to the opposing force (gravity).
>>
>> That's certainly what i'd try to do. It'd be madness not to. I'm not
>> saying i could get (or keep) the bar balanced on a knife-edge, but as long
>> as the centre of mass is somewhere over my palm, i won't have to exert a
>> moment on it.
>
> I would like to point out that curling an Olympic bar isn't for
> beginners.

Who mentioned an olympic bar? I'm going to be using the pink plastic
coated barbell for this one!

> I think it might be wise to try without anybody nearby just in case you
> lose control and haft to let go.

Also good advice when eating dried fruit.

tom

--
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Sir Jackery wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> phitcoach@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Conducting some research to find out what favorite bicep exercises
>>>>>>>> are. What works best for you? What gives the best pump?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One-armed standing barbell curls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, what? One-armed barbell curls? How?
>>>>>
>>>>> You grab the barbell in the middle by one arm at a time and curl it
>>>>> up.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Barbells are long, so in order to keep them level you need to use your
>>>>> forearms quite a bit too. There would be some marginal stress to your
>>>>> torso muscles, due to asymmetric load too, but not much if you do strict
>>>>> curls. Not enough weight for that, but you'll find that you really try to
>>>>> be tight while doing this movement.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. If the bar's balanced in your hand, i don't see why it would be
>>>> different to a dumbbell curl. If it's not, i can see that it definitely
>>>> would be!
>>>
>>> The body would be dynamically working to balance the bar. Unless of
>>> course you found the ideal balance point and exerted ONLY force that
>>> runs parallel to the opposing force (gravity).
>>
>> That's certainly what i'd try to do.
>
> The problem (or advantage, however you like looking at it) is that one
> fails at keeping a barbell perfectly balanced. You need to use your
> forearms' muscles to actively keep the balance. So they get the
> workout.

So i gather. I'm going to have to try this.

>> Also, i don't see this mentioned, but it's really only push movements that
>> require balance.
>
> Let's try a test. Your straight bar chinup is probably smaller than a
> parallel grip chinup, which is smaller than v-grip chinup. So if
> balance in pulls is not an issue, your blast-strap chinup would be the
> best of them all, because you could use the most comfortable grip
> position throughout a whole range of motion. But you know what? It
> will probably be weaker than a straight bar chinup.

Is that really about balance? I guess it depends on how you define the
word. But i take your point - all forms of pull are not created equal.

tom

--
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Tom Anderson wrote:
[...]

> Curt, do we have a non-sequitur
> of the month award?

Hmmm.

[...]

> Your third sentence looks like an answer
> to your second. Would you be at all
> interested in restating your question?

NOW, YOU STOP THAT RIGHT THIS INSTANCE!

> During a dumbbell bench press, it's the
> opposite - gravity is dicking with you,

No non-sequitur awards in the works, however I'm getting GRAVITY IS
DICKING WITH YOU as an air-brushed t-shirt at the mall, ASAP.

> so you have to work to keep the weight
> in line (using your delts, and levator armulae

Levator armulae? You just made that up, didn't you? Well?

Cool.

> or whatever, ask an anatomist).

http://www9.biostr.washington.edu/

> tom

--
Curt

Tom Anderson wrote:
[...]

> <snip> all forms of pull are not created equal.

Just ask Brad Pitt. Antonio Banderas? Or that oogly sombitch, George
Clooney.

A guess.

Laugh, you humorless bastards.

--
Curt

"spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> schreef:

>> Are you saying that curls for 12-15 reps are not productive?

> Nope. I'm saying training for a pump is unlikely to be productive if that
> is the goal each workout.

As long as you increase the weights, it doesnt matter.

If you start with 50 pounds for 15 reps, and several years later you can do
150 pounds for 15 reps, it seems working in that range is very productive.

>> How can they be unprodoctive?

> A lot of ways, including taking time away from large multi-joint exercises
> that hit the biceps among several other muscles.

But that has nothing to do with biceps. That has to do with other muscles.

--
Pete

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:

> Also, i don't see this mentioned, but it's really only push movements that
> require balance. During a dumbbell bent-over row, as an example of a pull,
> your weighted arm acts rather like a plumb-bob, with gravity acting to
> keep it centred. During a dumbbell bench press, it's the opposite -
> gravity is dicking with you, so you have to work to keep the weight in
> line (using your delts, and levator armulae or whatever, ask an
> anatomist).

That is an excellent point, and it happens that it was on my mind for the
last week or so.

Pullups dont require balance, overheads do. Gravity will make sure you stay
balanced. If we can speak of such a thing.

Funny thing is, when you compare deads and squats, which uses the same prime
movers, deads dont require balance, squats do. Its the direct result of
being "in between" the weight and gravity. If you fuck it up, you either go
forward or backwards. With deads, the gravity pulls "directly" at the bar,
nothing is in between. Impossible to lose "balance."

After my years of experience, i have concluded that for strenght/size,
machines are a very good tool.
If you analyze the squat, or any other pressing movement, you will notice
that if you use heavy enough weights, the bar will go up in a straight line.
When you do squats, the bar is centered above the heels, and stays that way.

Many people also wrongly assume that when you do overheads, the bar is
pressed overhead in a curve. Nothing could be further from the truth. The
bar goes up in a straight line, and usually the head is cocked back at the
beginning , and comes back at the end. The upper part of the torso also
moves a bit back and forth, to maintain balance.

You might as well select a machine, so balance is taken out of the equation.
It has nothing to do with strength/mass.
It has to do with balance.

--
Pete

Pete wrote:
> "spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> schreef:
>
>>> Are you saying that curls for 12-15 reps are not productive?
>
>> Nope. I'm saying training for a pump is unlikely to be productive if that
>> is the goal each workout.
>
> As long as you increase the weights, it doesnt matter.
>
> If you start with 50 pounds for 15 reps, and several years later you can do
> 150 pounds for 15 reps, it seems working in that range is very productive.
>
>>> How can they be unprodoctive?
>
>> A lot of ways, including taking time away from large multi-joint exercises
>> that hit the biceps among several other muscles.
>
> But that has nothing to do with biceps. That has to do with other muscles.

If you can't do weighted pullups because you're training for a 'pump'
then doing curls is not the most productive use of your time. I'd like
to see you perform a pullup without your biceps (I strongly advise
against severing the tendon, but if you REALLY must try to be right
about this, well, I can't stop you).

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> schreef:

>>> A lot of ways, including taking time away from large multi-joint
>>> exercises that hit the biceps among several other muscles.

>> But that has nothing to do with biceps. That has to do with other
>> muscles.

> If you can't do weighted pullups because you're training for a 'pump' then
> doing curls is not the most productive use of your time.

But that is not the point.

Where is it written that you HAVE to do weighted pullups wrt bicep
development?

>id like to see you perform a pullup without your biceps (I strongly advise
>against
> severing the tendon, but if you REALLY must try to be right about this,
> well, I can't stop you).

I guess not, but thats not the point.

--
Pete

Pete wrote:
> "spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> schreef:
>
>>>> A lot of ways, including taking time away from large multi-joint
>>>> exercises that hit the biceps among several other muscles.
>
>>> But that has nothing to do with biceps. That has to do with other
>>> muscles.
>
>> If you can't do weighted pullups because you're training for a 'pump' then
>> doing curls is not the most productive use of your time.
>
> But that is not the point.
>
> Where is it written that you HAVE to do weighted pullups wrt bicep
> development?
>

I didn't say that you had to do weighted pullups, nor did I say you
couldn't do curls.

Ari


--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> schreef:

>>> If you can't do weighted pullups because you're training for a 'pump'
>>> then
>>> doing curls is not the most productive use of your time.

>> But that is not the point.

>> Where is it written that you HAVE to do weighted pullups wrt bicep
>> development?

> I didn't say that you had to do weighted pullups, nor did I say you
> couldn't do curls.

Okay.

--
Pete

On Thu, 7 Mar 2007, Curt wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> so you have to work to keep the weight in line (using your delts, and
>> levator armulae
>
> Levator armulae? You just made that up, didn't you? Well?

Maybe slightly.

>> or whatever, ask an anatomist).
>
> http://www9.biostr.washington.edu/

Cool. But mostly viscera.

tom

--
Rapid oxidation is the new black. -- some Mike

Pete wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:
>
>> Also, i don't see this mentioned, but it's really only push movements that
>> require balance. During a dumbbell bent-over row, as an example of a pull,
>> your weighted arm acts rather like a plumb-bob, with gravity acting to
>> keep it centred. During a dumbbell bench press, it's the opposite -
>> gravity is dicking with you, so you have to work to keep the weight in
>> line (using your delts, and levator armulae or whatever, ask an
>> anatomist).
>
> That is an excellent point, and it happens that it was on my mind for the
> last week or so.
>
> Pullups dont require balance, overheads do. Gravity will make sure you stay
> balanced. If we can speak of such a thing.

I assure you that if you'd try doing pullups on gymnastic rings, your
number would go down.

> Funny thing is, when you compare deads and squats, which uses the same prime
> movers, deads dont require balance, squats do.

If you are speaking about deads done strongmen style, on a machine, then
yes. They do not require much balance. You can pull in whichever
direction you fancy, and still you'll not fall over.

> Its the direct result of
> being "in between" the weight and gravity. If you fuck it up, you either go
> forward or backwards. With deads, the gravity pulls "directly" at the bar,
> nothing is in between. Impossible to lose "balance."

All right. I'll kick your plates when you pull, and we'll see.

> After my years of experience, i have concluded that for strenght/size,
> machines are a very good tool.
> If you analyze the squat, or any other pressing movement, you will notice
> that if you use heavy enough weights, the bar will go up in a straight line.
> When you do squats, the bar is centered above the heels, and stays that way.

Why then Smith machine squats feel so awkward?

> Many people also wrongly assume that when you do overheads, the bar is
> pressed overhead in a curve. Nothing could be further from the truth. The
> bar goes up in a straight line, and usually the head is cocked back at the
> beginning , and comes back at the end. The upper part of the torso also
> moves a bit back and forth, to maintain balance.
>
> You might as well select a machine, so balance is taken out of the equation.
> It has nothing to do with strength/mass.

Strength is specific to the way you test it. If you train with machines,
you are stronger with machines. If you train with barbells, you are
stronger with barbells.

> It has to do with balance.

So if I outbenched someone with a barbell I also should outbench him
with a machine? It didn't happen when I tried it last time, and I
benched like 15% more than the guy who could press full stack on a
machine. Machine felt really strange to me.

--
Andrzej Rosa

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> schreef:

>> Pullups dont require balance, overheads do. Gravity will make sure you
>> stay
>> balanced. If we can speak of such a thing.

> I assure you that if you'd try doing pullups on gymnastic rings, your
> number would go down.

But even if they did, you will get "back into balance" by just hangin there.

>> Funny thing is, when you compare deads and squats, which uses the same
>> prime
>> movers, deads dont require balance, squats do.

> If you are speaking about deads done strongmen style, on a machine, then
> yes. They do not require much balance. You can pull in whichever
> direction you fancy, and still you'll not fall over.

I think when you fall over when doing regular deads, its the result of
fatique or lack of strength, not imbalance.

>> Its the direct result of
>> being "in between" the weight and gravity. If you fuck it up, you either
>> go
>> forward or backwards. With deads, the gravity pulls "directly" at the
>> bar,
>> nothing is in between. Impossible to lose "balance."

> All right. I'll kick your plates when you pull, and we'll see.

Kicking a plate would create a vector from the side. Gravity pulls vertical,
not sideways.

>> After my years of experience, i have concluded that for strenght/size,
>> machines are a very good tool.
>> If you analyze the squat, or any other pressing movement, you will notice
>> that if you use heavy enough weights, the bar will go up in a straight
>> line.
>> When you do squats, the bar is centered above the heels, and stays that
>> way.

> Why then Smith machine squats feel so awkward?

The joints should be in line with the gliders. And you should get used to
it.

>> Many people also wrongly assume that when you do overheads, the bar is
>> pressed overhead in a curve. Nothing could be further from the truth. The
>> bar goes up in a straight line, and usually the head is cocked back at
>> the
>> beginning , and comes back at the end. The upper part of the torso also
>> moves a bit back and forth, to maintain balance.

>> You might as well select a machine, so balance is taken out of the
>> equation.
>> It has nothing to do with strength/mass.

> Strength is specific to the way you test it. If you train with machines,
> you are stronger with machines. If you train with barbells, you are
> stronger with barbells.

Yeah, but i think they transfer to one another.

>> It has to do with balance.

> So if I outbenched someone with a barbell I also should outbench him
> with a machine?

You would if you take the time to get used to the machine. Same prime
movers, same joints.

> It didn't happen when I tried it last time, and I
> benched like 15% more than the guy who could press full stack on a
> machine. Machine felt really strange to me.

Well, like i said, it takes time to get used to it.

Overheads feel SO much better on a machine than a bar.

--
Pete

Pete wrote:

> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
>>> Pullups dont require balance, overheads do. Gravity will make sure you
>>> stay
>>> balanced. If we can speak of such a thing.
>
>> I assure you that if you'd try doing pullups on gymnastic rings, your
>> number would go down.
>
> But even if they did, you will get "back into balance" by just hangin there.

After about a day, or so (damping coefficient for such pendulum would
be close to null). ;-)

>> If you are speaking about deads done strongmen style, on a machine, then
>> yes. They do not require much balance. You can pull in whichever
>> direction you fancy, and still you'll not fall over.
>
> I think when you fall over when doing regular deads, its the result of
> fatique or lack of strength, not imbalance.

Without imbalance you wouldn't be able to fall over.

>>> forward or backwards. With deads, the gravity pulls "directly" at the
>>> bar,
>>> nothing is in between. Impossible to lose "balance."
>
>> All right. I'll kick your plates when you pull, and we'll see.
>
> Kicking a plate would create a vector from the side. Gravity pulls vertical,
> not sideways.

But people don't pull precisely vertically. People tend to make mistakes
and during normal deads they can create imbalance. While doing machine
deads they can afford it fine, on free weight deads they have to avoid
them.
<