Where will Bush rank? He's only fifth worst

By Michael Lind

The Washington Post

Sunday, December 24, 2006

It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.

What makes a president horribly, immortally bad? Poor luck is not
enough. Some of the greatest presidents, such as Abraham Lincoln and
Franklin D. Roosevelt, have inherited crises and risen to the occasion.
The damage must be largely self-inflicted. And there's another test:
The damage to the nation must be substantial.

Doing nothing can be even worse than doing something wrong. Take the
worst president of all time, Buchanan. In office when Lincoln's
election in 1860 triggered the secession of one Southern state after
another, Buchanan sat by as the country crumbled. In his December 1860
message to Congress, three months before Lincoln was inaugurated, he
declared that the states had no right to secede, but that the federal
government had no right to stop them. By the time he left office, seven
states had left the Union, and the Confederates had looted the arsenals
in the South. If Buchanan had exercised his powers as commander in
chief, the rebels might have been stopped at far less than the eventual
cost of the Civil War.

The Civil War era also gave us the second-worst president: Johnson,
Lincoln's vice president and successor, a Tennessean who vetoed civil
rights acts and blocked the 14th Amendment because he didn't like
blacks. Johnson's policies led to his impeachment and forced the
Republicans in Congress to create a quasi-parliamentary system
marginalizing the president.

The third-worst president is Mr. Nixon, a criminal in the White House
who is still the only commander-in-chief ever to resign. Many
presidents have abused their power, but he was the only president to
run a criminal gang out of the Oval Office engaging in spying and
burglary while he sought to corrupt the Justice Department, the FBI and
the CIA.

Refusing to enforce the law while the country disintegrates, trying to
re-enslave emancipated blacks, and doubling as chief magistrate and
gangster - what could rival these presidential misdeeds? Unnecessary
and catastrophic wars?

To qualify a president for the Worst of All Time list, a war must be
catastrophic as well as unnecessary. Ronald Reagan's invasion of
Grenada, George H.W. Bush's invasion of Panama and Bill Clinton's
invasion of Haiti were unnecessary, but minor. And presidents can be
forgiven costly wars that were necessary or hard to avoid, such as
Harry S. Truman's stalemated war in Korea and Lyndon B. Johnson's
failed war in Vietnam, each of which was a Cold War battle more than a
separate conflict.

The two big, unjustified wars on my list are the War of 1812 and the
current conflict in Iraq, and the first was far worse than the second.

Madison, the "Father of the Constitution," was a great patriot, a
brilliant intellectual - and an absolutely abysmal president. In his
defense, the United States then was a minor neutral nation frequently
harassed by both of the warring empires, Britain and France. But cold
geopolitics should have led Washington to prefer a British victory,
which would have preserved a balance of power in Europe, to a French
victory that would have left France an unchecked superpower. Instead,
eager to conquer Spanish Florida and seize British Canada, Madison
sided with the more dangerous power against the less dangerous. Gen.
Andrew Jackson's victory in the Battle of New Orleans (waged two weeks
after the United States and Britain, unknown to Jackson, had signed a
peace treaty) helped Americans pretend that the War of 1812 was
something other than a total wipe-out.

By contrast, George W. Bush has inadvertently destroyed only Baghdad,
not Washington, and the costs of the Iraq war in blood and treasure are
far less than those of Korea and Vietnam. Why did Mr. Bush do it? Did
he really believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
Was it about oil? Israel? Revenge for Hussein's alleged attempt on Mr.
Bush's father's life? The war will join the sinking of the USS Maine
and the grassy knoll among the topics to exercise conspiracy theorists
for generations.

Like all presidents, George W. Bush wants to be remembered. He will get
his wish - as the fifth-worst president in U.S. history.

"Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> By Michael Lind
>
> The Washington Post
>
> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>
> It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
> time. He's merely the fifth worst,

GWB might be the most idiotic good ol' boy president of all time, but he
does have the best haircut of all the presidents,even better than that rock
star Thomas Jefferson who looks like a debutant on those new nickels.



winnard

"Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> By Michael Lind
>
> The Washington Post
>
> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>
> It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
> time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
> whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
> Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.
>
> What makes a president horribly, immortally bad? Poor luck is not
> enough. Some of the greatest presidents, such as Abraham Lincoln and
> Franklin D. Roosevelt, have inherited crises and risen to the occasion.
> The damage must be largely self-inflicted. And there's another test:
> The damage to the nation must be substantial.
>
> Doing nothing can be even worse than doing something wrong. Take the
> worst president of all time, Buchanan. In office when Lincoln's
> election in 1860 triggered the secession of one Southern state after
> another, Buchanan sat by as the country crumbled. In his December 1860
> message to Congress, three months before Lincoln was inaugurated, he
> declared that the states had no right to secede, but that the federal
> government had no right to stop them. By the time he left office, seven
> states had left the Union, and the Confederates had looted the arsenals
> in the South. If Buchanan had exercised his powers as commander in
> chief, the rebels might have been stopped at far less than the eventual
> cost of the Civil War.
>
> The Civil War era also gave us the second-worst president: Johnson,
> Lincoln's vice president and successor, a Tennessean who vetoed civil
> rights acts and blocked the 14th Amendment because he didn't like
> blacks. Johnson's policies led to his impeachment and forced the
> Republicans in Congress to create a quasi-parliamentary system
> marginalizing the president.
>
> The third-worst president is Mr. Nixon, a criminal in the White House
> who is still the only commander-in-chief ever to resign. Many
> presidents have abused their power, but he was the only president to
> run a criminal gang out of the Oval Office engaging in spying and
> burglary while he sought to corrupt the Justice Department, the FBI and
> the CIA.
>
> Refusing to enforce the law while the country disintegrates, trying to
> re-enslave emancipated blacks, and doubling as chief magistrate and
> gangster - what could rival these presidential misdeeds? Unnecessary
> and catastrophic wars?
>
> To qualify a president for the Worst of All Time list, a war must be
> catastrophic as well as unnecessary. Ronald Reagan's invasion of
> Grenada, George H.W. Bush's invasion of Panama and Bill Clinton's
> invasion of Haiti were unnecessary, but minor. And presidents can be
> forgiven costly wars that were necessary or hard to avoid, such as
> Harry S. Truman's stalemated war in Korea and Lyndon B. Johnson's
> failed war in Vietnam, each of which was a Cold War battle more than a
> separate conflict.
>
> The two big, unjustified wars on my list are the War of 1812 and the
> current conflict in Iraq, and the first was far worse than the second.
>
> Madison, the "Father of the Constitution," was a great patriot, a
> brilliant intellectual - and an absolutely abysmal president. In his
> defense, the United States then was a minor neutral nation frequently
> harassed by both of the warring empires, Britain and France. But cold
> geopolitics should have led Washington to prefer a British victory,
> which would have preserved a balance of power in Europe, to a French
> victory that would have left France an unchecked superpower. Instead,
> eager to conquer Spanish Florida and seize British Canada, Madison
> sided with the more dangerous power against the less dangerous. Gen.
> Andrew Jackson's victory in the Battle of New Orleans (waged two weeks
> after the United States and Britain, unknown to Jackson, had signed a
> peace treaty) helped Americans pretend that the War of 1812 was
> something other than a total wipe-out.
>
> By contrast, George W. Bush has inadvertently destroyed only Baghdad,
> not Washington, and the costs of the Iraq war in blood and treasure are
> far less than those of Korea and Vietnam. Why did Mr. Bush do it? Did
> he really believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
> Was it about oil? Israel? Revenge for Hussein's alleged attempt on Mr.
> Bush's father's life? The war will join the sinking of the USS Maine
> and the grassy knoll among the topics to exercise conspiracy theorists
> for generations.
>
> Like all presidents, George W. Bush wants to be remembered. He will get
> his wish - as the fifth-worst president in U.S. history.


Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.
You can't assess his term as president based on the Watergate incident. His
presidency needs to be assessed on foreign policy, the economy, social
progress etc. In those terms he was one of the better presidents. Watergate
was an isolated incident


>

Wayne schrieb:

> By Michael Lind
>
> The Washington Post
>
> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>
> It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
> time. He's merely the fifth worst ....

Wow, this from the Washington Post, the staunchest supporter of the GOP
for decades!
I still remember how they loved Reagan!!

Max

"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1168190913.443307.17650@42g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Wayne schrieb:
>
> > By Michael Lind
> >
> > The Washington Post
> >
> > Sunday, December 24, 2006
> >
> > It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
> > time. He's merely the fifth worst ....
>
> Wow, this from the Washington Post, the staunchest supporter of the GOP
> for decades!
> I still remember how they loved Reagan!!
>

Now, there's a good haircut. Pure punk rock.


winnard

winnard presented the following explanation :
> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> By Michael Lind
>>
>> The Washington Post
>>
>> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>>
>> It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
>> time. He's merely the fifth worst,
>
> GWB might be the most idiotic good ol' boy president of all time, but he
> does have the best haircut of all the presidents,even better than that rock
> star Thomas Jefferson who looks like a debutant on those new nickels.
>
>
>
> winnard

For worst hair, you gotta go Zack Taylor.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/pr...mages/zt12.gif

The porkchop sideburns are only good in a bar across from Bryant-Denny.
And as a quarterback, he wore a helmet with the N for knowledge.

S.

David wrote:

>
> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
> watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
> I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.
> You can't assess his term as president based on the Watergate incident. His
> presidency needs to be assessed on foreign policy, the economy, social
> progress etc. In those terms he was one of the better presidents. Watergate
> was an isolated incident

LOL, yes, I'm sure Bush will be forgiven for the Iraq war debacle
because it was, of course, "an isolated incident".

On 7 Jan 2007 09:07:26 -0800, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>By contrast, George W. Bush has inadvertently destroyed only Baghdad,
>not Washington, and the costs of the Iraq war in blood and treasure are
>far less than those of Korea and Vietnam. Why did Mr. Bush do it? Did
>he really believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
>Was it about oil? Israel? Revenge for Hussein's alleged attempt on Mr.
>Bush's father's life?

The author is a moron for not knowing the obvious answers.

After serious thinking David wrote :
> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
> watergate.

You are not what the Norse Berserkers would call a smrat man.

"Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>The third-worst president is Mr. Nixon, a criminal in the White House
>who is still the only commander-in-chief ever to resign. Many
>presidents have abused their power, but he was the only president to
>run a criminal gang out of the Oval Office engaging in spying and
>burglary while he sought to corrupt the Justice Department, the FBI and
>the CIA.

"Only Nixon could go to China."

The whinging leftists always fail to mention that one.

In article <45a12c89$0$2917$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au says...
>
> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > By Michael Lind
> >
> > The Washington Post
> >
> > Sunday, December 24, 2006
> >
> > It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
> > time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
> > whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
> > Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.
> >
> > What makes a president horribly, immortally bad? Poor luck is not
> > enough. Some of the greatest presidents, such as Abraham Lincoln and
> > Franklin D. Roosevelt, have inherited crises and risen to the occasion.
> > The damage must be largely self-inflicted. And there's another test:
> > The damage to the nation must be substantial.
> >
> > Doing nothing can be even worse than doing something wrong. Take the
> > worst president of all time, Buchanan. In office when Lincoln's
> > election in 1860 triggered the secession of one Southern state after
> > another, Buchanan sat by as the country crumbled. In his December 1860
> > message to Congress, three months before Lincoln was inaugurated, he
> > declared that the states had no right to secede, but that the federal
> > government had no right to stop them. By the time he left office, seven
> > states had left the Union, and the Confederates had looted the arsenals
> > in the South. If Buchanan had exercised his powers as commander in
> > chief, the rebels might have been stopped at far less than the eventual
> > cost of the Civil War.
> >
> > The Civil War era also gave us the second-worst president: Johnson,
> > Lincoln's vice president and successor, a Tennessean who vetoed civil
> > rights acts and blocked the 14th Amendment because he didn't like
> > blacks. Johnson's policies led to his impeachment and forced the
> > Republicans in Congress to create a quasi-parliamentary system
> > marginalizing the president.
> >
> > The third-worst president is Mr. Nixon, a criminal in the White House
> > who is still the only commander-in-chief ever to resign. Many
> > presidents have abused their power, but he was the only president to
> > run a criminal gang out of the Oval Office engaging in spying and
> > burglary while he sought to corrupt the Justice Department, the FBI and
> > the CIA.
> >
> > Refusing to enforce the law while the country disintegrates, trying to
> > re-enslave emancipated blacks, and doubling as chief magistrate and
> > gangster - what could rival these presidential misdeeds? Unnecessary
> > and catastrophic wars?
> >
> > To qualify a president for the Worst of All Time list, a war must be
> > catastrophic as well as unnecessary. Ronald Reagan's invasion of
> > Grenada, George H.W. Bush's invasion of Panama and Bill Clinton's
> > invasion of Haiti were unnecessary, but minor. And presidents can be
> > forgiven costly wars that were necessary or hard to avoid, such as
> > Harry S. Truman's stalemated war in Korea and Lyndon B. Johnson's
> > failed war in Vietnam, each of which was a Cold War battle more than a
> > separate conflict.
> >
> > The two big, unjustified wars on my list are the War of 1812 and the
> > current conflict in Iraq, and the first was far worse than the second.
> >
> > Madison, the "Father of the Constitution," was a great patriot, a
> > brilliant intellectual - and an absolutely abysmal president. In his
> > defense, the United States then was a minor neutral nation frequently
> > harassed by both of the warring empires, Britain and France. But cold
> > geopolitics should have led Washington to prefer a British victory,
> > which would have preserved a balance of power in Europe, to a French
> > victory that would have left France an unchecked superpower. Instead,
> > eager to conquer Spanish Florida and seize British Canada, Madison
> > sided with the more dangerous power against the less dangerous. Gen.
> > Andrew Jackson's victory in the Battle of New Orleans (waged two weeks
> > after the United States and Britain, unknown to Jackson, had signed a
> > peace treaty) helped Americans pretend that the War of 1812 was
> > something other than a total wipe-out.
> >
> > By contrast, George W. Bush has inadvertently destroyed only Baghdad,
> > not Washington, and the costs of the Iraq war in blood and treasure are
> > far less than those of Korea and Vietnam. Why did Mr. Bush do it? Did
> > he really believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
> > Was it about oil? Israel? Revenge for Hussein's alleged attempt on Mr.
> > Bush's father's life? The war will join the sinking of the USS Maine
> > and the grassy knoll among the topics to exercise conspiracy theorists
> > for generations.
> >
> > Like all presidents, George W. Bush wants to be remembered. He will get
> > his wish - as the fifth-worst president in U.S. history.
>
>
> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
> watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
> I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.

Yes it does. You're a truck driver - in addition to the other things
are.

Nixon, in conducting criminal activity (minor?!), is also a criminal,
among the other things he was.

"Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168191542.726721.143710@q40g2000cwq.googlegr oups.com...
>
> David wrote:
>
>>
>> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
>> watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
>> I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.
>> You can't assess his term as president based on the Watergate incident.
>> His
>> presidency needs to be assessed on foreign policy, the economy, social
>> progress etc. In those terms he was one of the better presidents.
>> Watergate
>> was an isolated incident
>
> LOL, yes, I'm sure Bush will be forgiven for the Iraq war debacle
> because it was, of course, "an isolated incident".

Why don't you dopey cunts stop cross posting? In mfw we still think
logically
Watergate is an isolated incident because it was an operation that took a
day or two to accomplish. Cost zero lives, a few hundred dollars
Iraq is NOT an isolated incident because it is an all encompassing operation
costing 100,000 lives, $150 billion dollars and of longer duration than WW2
I can't believe how fucking stupid you cunts are


>

"samson" <noone@noone.net> wrote in message
news:45a1303f$0$18841$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> After serious thinking David wrote :
>> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
>> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
>> watergate.
>
> You are not what the Norse Berserkers would call a smrat man.
>
No, I am not smrat not do I wish to be

"Dave Christian" <dcnews@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.200afcbcf9ee557898a0ef@news-server.cfl.rr.com...
> In article <45a12c89$0$2917$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au says...
>>
>> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1168189645.951990.270900@s80g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> > By Michael Lind
>> >
>> > The Washington Post
>> >
>> > Sunday, December 24, 2006
>> >
>> > It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
>> > time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
>> > whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
>> > Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.
>> >
>> > What makes a president horribly, immortally bad? Poor luck is not
>> > enough. Some of the greatest presidents, such as Abraham Lincoln and
>> > Franklin D. Roosevelt, have inherited crises and risen to the occasion.
>> > The damage must be largely self-inflicted. And there's another test:
>> > The damage to the nation must be substantial.
>> >
>> > Doing nothing can be even worse than doing something wrong. Take the
>> > worst president of all time, Buchanan. In office when Lincoln's
>> > election in 1860 triggered the secession of one Southern state after
>> > another, Buchanan sat by as the country crumbled. In his December 1860
>> > message to Congress, three months before Lincoln was inaugurated, he
>> > declared that the states had no right to secede, but that the federal
>> > government had no right to stop them. By the time he left office, seven
>> > states had left the Union, and the Confederates had looted the arsenals
>> > in the South. If Buchanan had exercised his powers as commander in
>> > chief, the rebels might have been stopped at far less than the eventual
>> > cost of the Civil War.
>> >
>> > The Civil War era also gave us the second-worst president: Johnson,
>> > Lincoln's vice president and successor, a Tennessean who vetoed civil
>> > rights acts and blocked the 14th Amendment because he didn't like
>> > blacks. Johnson's policies led to his impeachment and forced the
>> > Republicans in Congress to create a quasi-parliamentary system
>> > marginalizing the president.
>> >
>> > The third-worst president is Mr. Nixon, a criminal in the White House
>> > who is still the only commander-in-chief ever to resign. Many
>> > presidents have abused their power, but he was the only president to
>> > run a criminal gang out of the Oval Office engaging in spying and
>> > burglary while he sought to corrupt the Justice Department, the FBI and
>> > the CIA.
>> >
>> > Refusing to enforce the law while the country disintegrates, trying to
>> > re-enslave emancipated blacks, and doubling as chief magistrate and
>> > gangster - what could rival these presidential misdeeds? Unnecessary
>> > and catastrophic wars?
>> >
>> > To qualify a president for the Worst of All Time list, a war must be
>> > catastrophic as well as unnecessary. Ronald Reagan's invasion of
>> > Grenada, George H.W. Bush's invasion of Panama and Bill Clinton's
>> > invasion of Haiti were unnecessary, but minor. And presidents can be
>> > forgiven costly wars that were necessary or hard to avoid, such as
>> > Harry S. Truman's stalemated war in Korea and Lyndon B. Johnson's
>> > failed war in Vietnam, each of which was a Cold War battle more than a
>> > separate conflict.
>> >
>> > The two big, unjustified wars on my list are the War of 1812 and the
>> > current conflict in Iraq, and the first was far worse than the second.
>> >
>> > Madison, the "Father of the Constitution," was a great patriot, a
>> > brilliant intellectual - and an absolutely abysmal president. In his
>> > defense, the United States then was a minor neutral nation frequently
>> > harassed by both of the warring empires, Britain and France. But cold
>> > geopolitics should have led Washington to prefer a British victory,
>> > which would have preserved a balance of power in Europe, to a French
>> > victory that would have left France an unchecked superpower. Instead,
>> > eager to conquer Spanish Florida and seize British Canada, Madison
>> > sided with the more dangerous power against the less dangerous. Gen.
>> > Andrew Jackson's victory in the Battle of New Orleans (waged two weeks
>> > after the United States and Britain, unknown to Jackson, had signed a
>> > peace treaty) helped Americans pretend that the War of 1812 was
>> > something other than a total wipe-out.
>> >
>> > By contrast, George W. Bush has inadvertently destroyed only Baghdad,
>> > not Washington, and the costs of the Iraq war in blood and treasure are
>> > far less than those of Korea and Vietnam. Why did Mr. Bush do it? Did
>> > he really believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
>> > Was it about oil? Israel? Revenge for Hussein's alleged attempt on Mr.
>> > Bush's father's life? The war will join the sinking of the USS Maine
>> > and the grassy knoll among the topics to exercise conspiracy theorists
>> > for generations.
>> >
>> > Like all presidents, George W. Bush wants to be remembered. He will get
>> > his wish - as the fifth-worst president in U.S. history.
>>
>>
>> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
>> watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
>> I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.
>
> Yes it does. You're a truck driver - in addition to the other things
> are.
>
> Nixon, in conducting criminal activity (minor?!), is also a criminal,
> among the other things he was.

Semantics - the isolated watergate incident should not define an otherwise
successful presidency - just like Clinton 'lied' about getting a bj should
not mar his successful terms

David wrote:
> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1168191542.726721.143710@q40g2000cwq.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > David wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity with
> >> watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
> >> I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.
> >> You can't assess his term as president based on the Watergate incident.
> >> His
> >> presidency needs to be assessed on foreign policy, the economy, social
> >> progress etc. In those terms he was one of the better presidents.
> >> Watergate
> >> was an isolated incident
> >
> > LOL, yes, I'm sure Bush will be forgiven for the Iraq war debacle
> > because it was, of course, "an isolated incident".
>
> Why don't you dopey cunts stop cross posting? In mfw we still think
> logically
> Watergate is an isolated incident because it was an operation that took a
> day or two to accomplish.

I can't stand it -- Watergate was an elaborate conspiracy to obstruct
justice that lasted for *years.*

Joe Ramirez

If Bush isn't the worse who then is the most inarticulate?

Please tell me this country hasn't had any President who cannot speak
in public without reading from a prepared script or rehashing the same
old talking points over and over. Or perhaps he'll go down as the least
challenged in public by the media?

When Bush is remembered he will be known as the president who crippled
the US miltary and who acted consistently against the majority of the
publics wishes and who single handedly rewrote the constitution.

Bush will be known as the president of low wages, human rights
violations, tax breaks, high oil prices and unnecessary wars and who
lowered the reputation of America and Americans all throughout the
world.

On 7 Jan 2007 09:07:26 -0800, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:

>By Michael Lind
>
>The Washington Post
>
>Sunday, December 24, 2006
>
>It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
>time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
>whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
>Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.

Has history been revised so that Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter were
not presidents - to mention only two?

Hugh

On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:33:39 GMT, Eagle@roadrunner.com (J. Hugh
Sullivan) wrote:

>On 7 Jan 2007 09:07:26 -0800, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>By Michael Lind
>>
>>The Washington Post
>>
>>Sunday, December 24, 2006
>>
>>It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
>>time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
>>whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
>>Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.
>
>Has history been revised so that Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter were
>not presidents - to mention only two?
>
>Hugh

William Jefferson Clinton (the impeached) has to go down as the very
worst.

David wrote:
> Semantics - the isolated watergate incident should not define an
> otherwise successful presidency - just like Clinton 'lied' about
> getting a bj should not mar his successful terms

Clinton lied under oath. Nixon was involved in a felony break-in. Neither
should be remembered for anything but being scumbags.

--
__________________________________________________ _________
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises,
I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it
gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. -- Thomas
Jefferson

Joe Ramirez wrote:
> I can't stand it -- Watergate was an elaborate conspiracy to obstruct
> justice that lasted for *years.*

At the end of the day; Clinton should just have said "none of your fucking
business" when asked about having sex with a consenting adult other than
his wife. It was a witch hunt anyway - no sane person thinks the US
Government should have spent $20M to find out if Monica had sperm on her
dress. I'm nost sure where that expenditure falls into the US
Constitution. Cheating on your wife, while deplorable, is most certainly
not criminal.

Robert Nicholson wrote:
> If Bush isn't the worse who then is the most inarticulate?

Worst, not worse; and I think there have been more deplorable Presidents.
How about Lincoln; who started an illegal war on our land? And keep in
mind he wanted to "grandfather" all slaves - he was fine with them
remaining slaves for life. So it was not a matter of him protecting
Americans from slavery - it was about his personal ego.

"Joe Ramirez" <josephmramirez@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1168194711.822621.230240@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>
> David wrote:
>> "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1168191542.726721.143710@q40g2000cwq.googlegr oups.com...
>> >
>> > David wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Nixon was not a criminal - he conducted some minor criminal activity
>> >> with
>> >> watergate. This does not make him a criminal.
>> >> I drove a truck last weekend. This does not make me a truck driver.
>> >> You can't assess his term as president based on the Watergate
>> >> incident.
>> >> His
>> >> presidency needs to be assessed on foreign policy, the economy, social
>> >> progress etc. In those terms he was one of the better presidents.
>> >> Watergate
>> >> was an isolated incident
>> >
>> > LOL, yes, I'm sure Bush will be forgiven for the Iraq war debacle
>> > because it was, of course, "an isolated incident".
>>
>> Why don't you dopey cunts stop cross posting? In mfw we still think
>> logically
>> Watergate is an isolated incident because it was an operation that took a
>> day or two to accomplish.
>
> I can't stand it -- Watergate was an elaborate conspiracy to obstruct
> justice that lasted for *years.*
>

No Joe, watergate refers to a breakin at the Dem headquarters in 1972 at the
Watergate Hotel and a resulting cover up - the scandal lasted for years - it
was a minor event in the scheme of things - it would be rare for any
president not to have conducted illegal activities of one kind or another -
in fact Hoover had conducted illegal surveillance for a number of
presidents. Nixon simply went a step further. So fucking what. He did not
commit treason or any hanging offence. You are the kind of person that loves
to define a presidency on the basis of a scandal here and there - if you
took a poll on what was more important - the state of your income or if your
president pulled a stunt like Watergate, I doubt anyone could care less
about Watergate.


> Joe Ramirez
>

On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:31:29 -0500, RED DEVIL
<REDDEVIL@xxxbellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:33:39 GMT, Eagle@roadrunner.com (J. Hugh
>Sullivan) wrote:
>
>>On 7 Jan 2007 09:07:26 -0800, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>By Michael Lind
>>>
>>>The Washington Post
>>>
>>>Sunday, December 24, 2006
>>>
>>>It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
>>>time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
>>>whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
>>>Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.
>>
>>Has history been revised so that Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter were
>>not presidents - to mention only two?
>>
>>Hugh
>
>William Jefferson Clinton (the impeached) has to go down as the very
>worst.

I'm as far right as it gets but I have mixed thoughts on Clinton. He
was a draft dodger and moral scum but he balanced the budget. One out
of three is sorta like some wives - better than nothing.

A better case might be made for Lincoln and FDR - one divided the
country for all time and the other mortgaged our future with Social
Security.

Hugh

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
> A better case might be made for Lincoln and FDR - one divided the
> country for all time and the other mortgaged our future with Social
> Security.

Lincoln was the worst, by far.

"leinbacker" <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1168197615.151902.52590@s80g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Wayne wrote:
>> By Michael Lind
>>
>> The Washington Post
>>
>> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> A list of 5 worst presidents that doesn't include Jimmy Carter, amazing.
>

Or Warren Harding and Herbert Hoover.

T

Wayne wrote:
> By Michael Lind
>
> The Washington Post
>
> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>

<snip>

A list of 5 worst presidents that doesn't include Jimmy Carter, amazing.

Robert Nicholson wrote:
> If Bush isn't the worse who then is the most inarticulate?
>
> Please tell me this country hasn't had any President who cannot speak
> in public without reading from a prepared script or rehashing the same
> old talking points over and over. Or perhaps he'll go down as the least
> challenged in public by the media?
>
> When Bush is remembered he will be known as the president who crippled
> the US miltary and who acted consistently against the majority of the
> publics wishes and who single handedly rewrote the constitution.
>
> Bush will be known as the president of low wages, human rights
> violations, tax breaks, high oil prices and unnecessary wars and who
> lowered the reputation of America and Americans all throughout the
> world.


Bush will also be remembered for recovering an economy that was in
recession when he took charge, suffered the worst terrorist attack in
history, suffered one of if not the worst natural disastered, yet has
kept interest ratest low, unemployment in check, exposed the UN as the
most corrupt organization in history. Bush's faults are those
liberals love, excessive social spending.

leinbacker wrote:
> suffered the worst terrorist attack in
> history

Which may or may not have been preventable. That can be argued either way.

> suffered one of if not the worst natural disastered,

Was criticized for inaction and fired his #1 FEMA guy.

> yet has
> kept interest ratest low,

What did he do involving interest rates? Is he married to Alan Greenspan?
Interest is cyclical.

> unemployment in check,

12 million illegal Mexicans came here on his watch. Many corporations have
failed on his watch; though this is capitalism so shit happens.


> exposed the UN as the
> most corrupt organization in history.

We always knew the UN was irrelevant, no?


> Bush's faults are those
> liberals love, excessive social spending.

I don't blame him for that. Democrats and Republicans both love to spend
and love pork barrel line items. The only sane people on this planet are
Libertarians; and they are rather irrelevant and inconsequential.

On 7 Jan 2007 10:34:38 -0800, "Robert Nicholson"
<robert.nicholson@gmail.com> wrote:
>If Bush isn't the worse who then is the most inarticulate?
>
>Please tell me this country hasn't had any President who cannot speak
>in public without reading from a prepared script or rehashing the same
>old talking points over and over. Or perhaps he'll go down as the least
>challenged in public by the media?

Clinton could lie on que, at will, with the deftness of an actor. Yet
you mention not one word of this, as if it was no bother to you.


>
>When Bush is remembered he will be known as the president who crippled
>the US miltary and who acted consistently against the majority of the
>publics wishes and who single handedly rewrote the constitution.

You need to do some research on what happened to the military and the
intelligence community during Clinton's watch and try really hard to
figure out what that lead up to.


>
>Bush will be known as the president of low wages, human rights
>violations, tax breaks, high oil prices and unnecessary wars and who
>lowered the reputation of America and Americans all throughout the
>world.

And Clinton shoving a cigar up Lewinsky's vagina made you proud?

The Grand Beckoning wrote:
> On 7 Jan 2007 10:34:38 -0800, "Robert Nicholson"
>> Bush will be known as the president of low wages, human rights
>> violations, tax breaks, high oil prices and unnecessary wars and who
>> lowered the reputation of America and Americans all throughout the
>> world.
>
> And Clinton shoving a cigar up Lewinsky's vagina made you proud?

What Clinton does with some consenting adult should be between him, his
wife, and the woman (even though I think it was deplorable). It should not
be on display for 300 million Americans to opine about. The biggest
mistake he made was not telling Ken Starr it was none of his fucking
business.

I do not see him listed in the ATP site!!


Wayne wrote:
> By Michael Lind
>
> The Washington Post
>
> Sunday, December 24, 2006
>
> It's unfair to claim that George W. Bush is the worst president of all
> time. He's merely the fifth worst, behind four other Oval Officers
> whose policies were even more disastrous: James Buchanan, Andrew
> Johnson, Richard M. Nixon and James Madison.
>
> What makes a president horribly, immortally bad? Poor luck is not
> enough. Some of the greatest presidents, such as Abraham Lincoln and
> Franklin D. Roosevelt, have inherited crises and risen to the occasion.
> The damage must be largely self-inflicted. And there's another test:
> The damage to the nation must be substantial.
>
> Doing nothing can be even worse than doing something wrong. Take the
> worst president of all time, Buchanan. In office when Lincoln's
> election in 1860 triggered the secession of one Southern state after
> another, Buchanan sat by as the country crumbled. In his December 1860
> message to Congress, three months before Lincoln was inaugurated, he
> declared that the states had no right to secede, but that the federal
> government had no right to stop them. By the time he left office, seven
> states had left the Union, and the Confederates had looted the arsenals
> in the South. If Buchanan had exercised his powers as commander in
> chief, the rebels might have been stopped at far less than the eventual
> cost of the Civil War.
>
> The Civil War era also gave us the second-worst president: Johnson,
> Lincoln's vice president and successor, a Tennessean who vetoed civil
> rights acts and blocked the 14th Amendment because he didn't like
> blacks. Johnson's policies led to his impeachment and forced the
> Republicans in Congress to create a quasi-parliamentary system
> marginalizing the president.
>
> The third-worst president is Mr. Nixon, a criminal in the White House
> who is still the only commander-in-chief ever to resign. Many
> presidents have abused their power, but he was the only president to
> run a criminal gang out of the Oval Office engaging in spying and
> burglary while he sought to corrupt the Justice Department, the FBI and
> the CIA.
>
> Refusing to enforce the law while the country disintegrates, trying to
> re-enslave emancipated blacks, and doubling as chief magistrate and
> gangster - what could rival these presidential misdeeds? Unnecessary
> and catastrophic wars?
>
> To qualify a president for the Worst of All Time list, a war must be
> catastrophic as well as unnecessary. Ronald Reagan's invasion of
> Grenada, George H.W. Bush's invasion of Panama and Bill Clinton's
> invasion of Haiti were unnecessary, but minor. And presidents can be
> forgiven costly wars that were necessary or hard to avoid, such as
> Harry S. Truman's stalemated war in Korea and Lyndon B. Johnson's
> failed war in Vietnam, each of which was a Cold War battle more than a
> separate conflict.
>
> The two big, unjustified wars on my list are the War of 1812 and the
> current conflict in Iraq, and the first was far worse than the second.
>
> Madison, the "Father of the Constitution," was a great patriot, a
> brilliant intellectual - and an absolutely abysmal president. In his
> defense, the United States then was a minor neutral nation frequently
> harassed by both of the warring empires, Britain and France. But cold
> geopolitics should have led Washington to prefer a British victory,
> which would have preserved a balance of power in Europe, to a French
> victory that would have left France an unchecked superpower. Instead,
> eager to conquer Spanish Florida and seize British Canada, Madison
> sided with the more dangerous power against the less dangerous. Gen.
> Andrew Jackson's victory in the Battle of New Orleans (waged two weeks
> after the United States and Britain, unknown to Jackson, had signed a
> peace treaty) helped Americans pretend that the War of 1812 was
> something other than a total wipe-out.
>
> By contrast, George W. Bush has inadvertently destroyed only Baghdad,
> not Washington, and the costs of the Iraq war in blood and treasure are
> far less than those of Korea and Vietnam. Why did Mr. Bush do it? Did
> he really believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
> Was it about oil? Israel? Revenge for Hussein's alleged attempt on Mr.
> Bush's father's life? The war will join the sinking of the USS Maine
> and the grassy knoll among the topics to exercise conspiracy theorists
> for generations.
>
> Like all presidents, George W. Bush wants to be remembered. He will get
> his wish - as the fifth-worst president in U.S. history.